The Power of Mentoring with Janet Taylor (Ep. 497)

In today’s episode, Tim Bogatz sits down with art educator and mentor Janet Taylor for a thoughtful and candid conversation about the role of mentoring as art teachers. Together, they explore how mentoring relationships begin, what makes them meaningful, and why both new and experienced art teachers benefit from having a supportive professional network. They also discuss the qualities that make an effective mentor, and emphasize the importance of communication and support in the mentor-mentee relationship.

Be sure to explore the resources available to support both new teachers and mentors in their professional development!

Full episode transcript below.

Resources and Links

• • Join the Art of Ed Community
  • The Importance of Mentoring
  • 6 Ways to Support New (and New-to-You) Art Teachers
  • How to Build the Art Teacher Network You Need
  • 7 Important Considerations When Mentoring New Teachers
  • What Do New Teachers Need to Know About Curriculum?

Transcript

Tim:

Welcome to Art Ed Radio, the podcast for art teachers. This show is produced by The Art of Education, and I’m your host, Tim Bogatz.

In today’s episode, we are going to talk about mentoring and we’re going to talk about it both from the perspective of someone who is the mentor doing the mentoring and also someone who is the mentee. And my guest today is going to be Janet Taylor. You know, Janet, she’s been on the podcast so many times about so many topics and she just kind of has an open invitation whenever she’s been reflecting on something, thinking about something and

thinking deeply as she often does. She will let me know, hey, I’d love to talk about this. And most of the time it’s going to be a pretty good conversation. So most of the time I say yes. And I think a mentoring episode is something that we have not covered in depth. Something that I think can be incredibly helpful because mentoring is a really powerful tool, something that can

really guide you in the right way on your art teacher journey. And whether you are brand new to your classroom, brand new to the school, or even if you have experience in other areas, as you come into teaching, the right support system can give you confidence and ideas and just kind of navigate you through those challenges that are

kind of unique to teaching art. so today we’re going to talk about what mentoring looks like. So Jenna and I will cover our own experiences, you know, the good, the bad, the surprising, and just the, the ideas that, you know, mentoring can do so much for us. And so we’re going to talk about the benefits of that, whether that be community building or growth or just helping you kind of

refine your classroom management or refine your teaching craft. So whether you are mentoring someone right now, whether you’re looking for a mentor, or if you’re just curious about how to make those connections and build those professional relationships, hopefully this episode will have something for you. So let me bring on Janet now and we will talk about mentors.

Okay, Janet Taylor is joining me. Janet, how are you?

Janet:

Tim, I’m doing great. How are you?

Tim:

Great! As always, I love talking to you excited to talk to you about this topic is mentoring today. And you have a lot, I think to offer. So excited to chat about that. And the first question that I wanted to ask you was just your own experiences with having a mentor or being a mentor.

As I was going to say, for me, I had a couple of years, sort of floundering through elementary art with nobody to guide me. Like I had one colleague, but she was so busy with her also seven schools that she went to that, you know, she didn’t have a ton of time to, sort of show me the ropes. And then by the time I figured it out, I went to the high school and they’re like, you need a mentor. And I was like, no, I already know what I’m doing. Where was this mentor two years ago? So it was kind of an interesting change to have that shift when I moved to the high school have some experience, but then it’s a new school.

So like here’s, here’s a mentor, here’s some guidance, whether you need it or not. So it was helpful still to kind of get me acclimated to the school and get me figured out with all of the procedures, logistics of working there. But it seemed like it would have been more helpful had I first been starting out. So for you, what, what has been your experience with being a mentor, having a mentor?

Janet:

Yeah, so it’s funny because my experience was very similar to your experience. So as a new art teacher, I was also supposed to be assigned a mentor, but that never happened. But I definitely found, you know, other people.

as my mentor. I do, you know, I’ll talk about this a little bit, because I think it’s important to consider what is a mentor and what does that look like for you. So I started my first year teaching really as a brand new mom, it was a new change of career. And so I and I was teaching photo one, okay, so between two schools.

And the other photo teacher at the one school that was at really became my mentor kind of unofficially, right? So shout out to Mary Lee. She was amazing. But because I was like a new mom also in all these things, she was really became such an important mentor in other aspects of life, right? Like being a mom and you then then she went on maternity leave. I was like, wait, wait a second. Now she already had a kid, right? So like I do.

Yes, when I was like, wait, when I interviewed, nobody told me that. Yeah, that was very traumatic for me, I would say, because I was like, my gosh, this is all new. I barely have my footing at all. And now my mentor, my unofficial mentor is not even there. So I will say that, again, finding your people and we’ll talk about that I know later, too. But really, OK, so this is my if I can go deep into this.

Tim:

No, no, I would like to hear more about this because I know you’ve thought a lot about this and like philosophically there are some ideas that I think are worth sharing. So yes, please dive in.

Janet:

Okay. Okay, because you know, I can’t do anything surface level got to go deep. But I will say that when I reflect back on my life, you know, or in the times that I’ve needed to like think about my journey is in a career and life in general, I really have found like a mentor in my life, pretty much in everything I do and every aspect that I’ve kind of gone through life. And maybe that’s me, I just I need I really do need people to guide me through this crazy world. And I need to connect with people that are more experienced than myself. And so I feel like whether intuitively or subconsciously or whatever, there’s always been, I’ve been drawn to find people, right? To help me. Whatever school that I’ve been in, because I’ve been in a few over my career, I’ve really connected with people who have mentored me in a lot of different capacities too. So, okay, my daughter is now 15, and going through a lot of social things over the last several years. something that I was thinking about with her too, and I talked to her about this, there are people in your life to serve very important and very specific purposes and roles. And part of navigating life is figuring out who to talk to, who to find to give you that guidance in those areas.

Tim:
Who can help you in which situation.

Janet:

Right, or even just commiserate or maybe direct me to the answer that I need, right? That kind of thing. So, for example, my best friend that I found, I’m so lucky to have found her. I can tell her pretty much anything, right? She will always have my side no matter what. Sometimes, sometimes she will just do a good job of holding me accountable in ways that I’m like, wait, like in the moment, I’m like, you’re not supposed to say that. And then later I’m like, you’re so right, you know? Yes. But I like a good example.

On the flip side, is that my husband, who I just absolutely adore, I also know that I’m not going to talk to him about teaching stuff. Like there are certain things I can obviously talk to him about with teaching, but like going deep into teaching with him, he’s just going to like glaze over, right? And be like, okay, this for me is like this at school too. I really need someone who can help me with my philosophical chatter.

and Tim Bogatz who I know I can bounce anything off of, right? And be like, I’m thinking about this idea. What do you think of this, and then I can be like, let’s do a podcast.

Tim:
Exactly, right?

Janet:

So lucky for that. I was gonna say, there are definitely some times you’re like, that’s a cool idea. I don’t know what to do with that. You know, it sits and percolates for a little while. But you know, who is going to geek out with me on curriculum assessment? Not everybody, right? So I need to find those people that like, if I have something that I’m mulling over, really trying to figure out, I need to know who to talk to, right? In those cases, it might be an even an administrator who I know geeks out about this too, but I also really trust their opinion and feel really safe with them, for example. Because I see even, you know, really just anybody in those particular cases, I would call those my mentors. So that’s my thing. Okay. So funny enough that transitioning back to your original question. So when I came to my new district that I’m in now, it’s not new to me anymore, I guess.

It was kind of funny because now I have been like presenting and, you know, teaching for a long time and I’m like teaching student teachers at the college. And I get there and just like you, they like assign me a mentor and I’m like, 15 years ago and I felt like I really needed that, you know? So for my first time ever, I had an official mentor. that. Yeah, yes, an official mentor, which I think there is something else we should talk about in a little bit, but that mentor if they’re within your department or not in your department and what that kind of looks like. Because I think there are some interesting boundaries and things to talk about within that.

Tim:

I think so because I feel like if your mentor is within your department, it can be incredibly helpful for all of the obvious reasons, but it can also be very insular and you sort of lose that perspective of what’s going on outside your department. And so if you’re in a school with 50 or a hundred teachers and you talk to the same six or seven the entire time, like you’re, missing out on a lot of perspectives.

Janet:

Yeah. And I think also as a mentor within that department too, it makes sense actually to some degree to be mentored by those people because you’re going to be with them anyway. You might as well get their perspective and get their support. So when I mentored teachers in the past, they usually are within my department. Honestly, sometimes I think it’s better maybe to have someone outside the department. And a big part of that is because you would be like you said, a connecting and getting perspectives from outside. also really, it’s sometimes a little too close to home to be within the same department. You like you don’t want to you want to be able to have somebody who can hold you accountable and talk to you and guide you without like a sense of judgment. I think sometimes that I mean, happens as human nature. Right. So I think it’s important to build those connections within your school without feeling judged by a peer. So, you know, it goes both ways.

Tim:

Yeah, it’s definitely a balancing act for sure. And there are benefits to both. like I said, we can see all of those sides. Let me ask you though, thinking about being a mentor, thinking about having a mentor, what are the qualities that make for a good mentor? Like what skills, what qualities does a good mentor have?

Janet:
Okay, so maybe this is my years of therapy. But something I’ve learned both in school and out is really about listening skills, right? As a mentor, if I have somebody that’s coming to me and talking to me about their challenges, you know, I really do, like I said, have to put my judgment aside, right? And put on the lens of like listening and observing and thinking about what this person is going through and what they’re asking for, right?

You know, being able to hear what they’re saying, put it in a kind of mirror, and reflect it back to them and make sure you have it right. So for example, in my years of therapy, like I said, this one was called listener speaker, think, or speaker listener. And it’s where you talk to the person, right? They’re saying something and then you reflect it back. Like, did I get that right? And it gives that person an opportunity to put it back and clarify. And I think sometimes just through that dialogue and that kind of understanding builds that trust that, hey, is listening, but also allows that other, the mentee, to really reflect on and really clarify what the problem is, right? Or what they’re trying to ask for. It’s not always a problem, right? Sometimes it’s just like, I’m not sure what I need here. And especially new teachers, even a new teacher at a new school, but new teachers in general don’t always know, and we say this all the time, they don’t know what to ask for.

Tim:

Yeah, they don’t know what they don’t know. Like there are so many things out there that they haven’t even thought about yet.

Janet:

And why would they? Right. think sometimes also as a mentor being able to filter through what it is they’re asking, are they asking for a problem to be solved? Are they asking for advice? Are they asking just to vent and share?

Tim:

All of which are equally valid, we should say. Yes. of those things need to be talked about.

Janet:

Correct, exactly. But like if they’re just like, hey, I had a spill in my classroom, who do I contact for paper towels? They might not be articulating it in that way. They might be like, oh my God, I had a spill in my classroom and it was so hot and all these things. And you’re like, right, I got you. You need to contact Maurice down in whatever and get some paper towels down there, whatever it is. So I think sometimes as a mentor, you’re not there to solve all the problems. You’re there to guide, right? So you’re just constantly reminding yourself of that. And I think sometimes it’s easy to go into that world of like trying to fix, trying to advise. Like I have all the answers. Let me advise. No, your role as a mentor is to guide, which means that you’re facilitating the conversation. You’re helping that person find their way. You are not responsible for them. I guess I don’t know how else to say that, right?

So that means also, like I said, so come to the table without judgment. Someone who can reflect back with questions, right? So this is stuff we do with our students, right? So somebody says, my gosh. Yeah, it’s like, you know, they’re like, my God, I have this big spill in my classroom. And you’re like, OK, so you have a big spill in your classroom. Are you looking for paper towels? you looking at, you know, how are you managing your classroom? Are there things that, you know, you could do better? Like, what can I help you with? You know?

I think pushing back those questions to allow them to ask for what they want, as opposed to you just assuming, creates stronger bonds too, right?

Tim:

Yeah, for sure. And I think that’s something you sometimes need to be careful with if you’re mentoring because that can be kind of infantilizing.

Janet:

Yes.

Tim:

You know, when you’re saying, what would you do in this situation? know, just treating them like you would a student. Like you need to stay away from that. You need to keep it professional. But the concepts are the same and you’re you are helping educate somebody on how to do things. And I think that’s important that you can continue to do that. But but try not to treat them as if they don’t know anything.

Janet:

Makes sense. And I think sometimes giving them those like multiple options. But in those cases, sometimes I just sit there and I give pause and I think about different options that are not always right or wrong. Right. Like, well, you know, if I was in your situation, maybe I would try this. Maybe I could try that. And usually when I say that to students, you can see their gears turning. Right. Like all of sudden they have this aha moment because their mind is going in different directions that they might not have been able to problem solve at the time. And I think the same thing with a new teacher, like, well, you know, are you looking for this or this or this? And then they start to go, okay, now I know what to do. And I think, you know, sometimes it’s just, it’s so overwhelming being a new teacher, right? You get like flooded, you know?

It really is. then if you can just kind of direct those thoughts or direct that train of thought. You know, I think that’s good. My approach is always like, Hey, I’m just thinking out loud here, but what if, you know, and then throw a couple ideas out there. They may not even be good ideas, but the point is it gets the other person thinking about those things, you know, same situation that you were just talking about and gets them thinking and processing, uh, and helps them kind of arrive at the solution that they may be looking for.

So there’s a couple other things that I wanted to touch base on though that I are important too. So another thing to make sure that as a mentor that you should be thinking about keeping the situations positive. And I think sometimes it’s really easy, especially as a veteran teacher to go down that negative rabbit hole.

Tim:

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

I feel like that’s the default setting for a lot of people.

Janet:

I mean, I’ve caught myself a couple times we have a new teacher in our district. And she’ll say something I just like roll my eyes because it’s not her. like the situation of like, of course, this is a problem, you like, a surprise. So I think trying to keep it as professional and positive is really important. Kind of flipping it around and making it more of an encouraging like guilty as charged.

Oh, it’s so hard sometimes to be like, well, yes. And from this other perspective, I can understand this or, you know, so that’s one thing. And then also, it’s really hard as a mentor, I think, because again, especially if this person is in your department, or you work with them closely to hold them accountable for their, for their work and their understanding. I think

Tim:

Following up with them and not just being like, okay, we did this checklist that maybe my district gave us, right? Like we have a checklist that says on this meeting date, you’re going to do these things, right? Correct. But just like following up and like, Hey, you know, how did that experience go or how, are you doing with that? And at our district too, you have to be observed by your mentor. And then the mentee also observes you. And so having some follow-up discussions about that. And like I said, that’s about these three topics.

Janet:

That’s where sometimes it can get really hard because or easier if you’re not in the same department, right? Yes. Because they’re coming from a different lens. They’re able to view you and you’re able to view them.

You can kind of take a step back and see your picture.

Yes. So that’s the pro and con side, right? Is always there. But, and then I think the last thing that’s really important as a mentor and as a mentee is to keeping confidentiality at heart and then being very honest, right? With those conversations. So I think that can be hard too, right? As a mentor, like, my God, this new teacher just said these things to me. Can you believe it? know, trying to remember that those conversations that you have, are there between you and that again that forges those bonds and creates that connection that’s really long lasting and important.

Tim:

Yeah, absolutely. think those last two points are really important. The, the idea of accountability is great. Not necessarily with every little thing. Like, are you making sure you did this? Did you do this? Or like, you don’t need to micromanage anybody, but you do need to follow up and like, Hey, how did this go for you? Do we still need to talk about this? Or did you follow up in this way? Did you, with the problem you had with this student, did you go through the correct channels and make sure that, you know, everybody who needs to to know things knows things just making sure that they’re doing things right again keeping that level of professionalism, I think is is really good and the idea of honesty, I think is important as well. If there’s something that that’s not going well when you observe them, for example, you need to be clear and direct. You know, the, idea of clear is kind and just be able to have those honest conversations with them about this is something that I think could be an issue. This is something that needs to improve.

And you don’t need to, you know, do that in a critical way, but do it in an honest way, in a clear way so that you can have those discussions, help them figure out what needs to be done to kind of solve those problems. But I wanted to dive in a little bit more, something you said at the beginning of that last answer, about you’re there to guide them. As a mentor, your job is guidance.

For the most part, you want to let those mentees, let the younger teachers be independent, find their way, you know, make their mistakes, solve those problems, and figure things out from their own. But there are times where they need guidance, they need expertise, they need you to step in. And so my question is, when do you do that? Like, how do you know?

When is it time to give that guidance? How do you know when it’s time to step in and help?

Janet:

Yeah, I mean, it’s so hard because new teachers like true new teachers, right? Like brand new out of school and like this is their first time. Right, right, right, right. New to the classroom. I think it’s really hard because like they’re not a student teacher, but they kind of still are, right? Like you still are brand new to the career, just new to the class. Learning there’s still a lot to there, especially when I was working with student teachers, right? I would go and observe them multiple times over a semester and kind of guiding them. And seeing how they worked with their mentors or collaborating teachers was pretty interesting. And then at the end, you know, they’re like, they’re like, OK, I’m looking for this job and I’m going to step into this classroom and nobody is going to be there. Like, it’s like, not a classroom. And I’m like, right. It’s such a weird experience to just be like, OK, here you go. Your training wheels are off, right?

But so it’s really hard because different people need different levels of that too. I was already a pretty veteran. mean, like prior to me starting my career out, right? I’d already spent over a decade in a high level like management kind of situation. So I obviously knew how to manage things. That doesn’t mean I know how to manage a classroom, right? Like the best. And so I might also know have all these ideas for lessons and I might feel good about that, right? And so maybe I come in with this skill set that I feel very confident with, but then I’m still stepping in this classroom and have no idea what I’m getting served, right? Like even now as a veteran, I walk in every time and I’m like, what is today going to be like? Or what is this new class like the new class dynamic? You just never know how things will shift and how it will go. It’s just a really tough balance there.

Getting to know, I think getting to know your mentee is important because that is helpful to where you step in and where you guide, you know? Yeah. So like assuming that they know nothing and come with no skills just because they’re a new teacher is a bad assumption. You know, I guess that was my point of that story, right? Like you can come in, they can come in with an incredible amount of skill sets and still need a lot of guidance in other areas. And I think a lot of times mentors just assume well, they’re new teachers. Let me make sure they can get every little ounce of help that they need. And that’s just not beneficial to either of you in those situations. As a new teacher mentor, I think a big part is probably getting to know the school and its systems, as well as all the things that they have to do, because they probably haven’t done a whole lot of that in their student teaching experience. And then the other part is actually supporting them mentally through the experience of being through the ebbs and flows, the roller coaster.

Tim:

Just going to say it, like in your first year teaching is a roller coaster physically, emotionally, mentally. So yeah, there there’s definitely some guidance needed there.

Janet:

Yeah. If you’re so basically, guess it’s a moral that is I don’t know the answer to that tip. No, I’m just kidding. OK, but like if you’re a veteran teacher at a new school, this is perfect example of different needs of independence and guidance. Right. So like, for example, I come to my new school. I’ve been teaching jewelry for how long I have curriculum. I know how to set up classroom. I know how to manage things. What I’m really looking for is how is this school

How does this school manage things? What’s expected of me of my evaluations? That’s going to look differently, right? Who am I going to talk to when I need my support with my spill in my classroom, right? Which administrator is the easiest to talk to about things? think that, you know, like, can I just

Tim:

Those are all right. They feel like minor things, but they are so important.

Janet:

So important. So you need them. Yes. And what’s the vibe of the kids? What kind of demographic am I dealing with? mean, that’s really important. And when you’re a new teacher, you’re just kind of taking all of that. It’s like one big clump. So as a mentor of someone who’s coming to this new school or to a new school who’s a veteran teacher, right, is a different need than a new teacher brand out. That being said, as a mentor, I think, and I feel like we touched about this before,

The boundaries is really important. So it is not your job. You are not a full-time mentor. Like you are teaching. You have a lot on your plate. When you student teach and are a collaborating teacher, it’s like you kind of give up your workload to your workload with the students to some degree becomes your workload with your student teacher. There’s a little bit of a shift of a dynamic there. But when you’re a mentor, it’s on top of everything you’re doing.

I think it’s really important to be clear on that as well. Like you are not there to fix, like I said, all this person’s know, fires that happen, cause they do. And making that clear, you know, like here’s the people that you can talk to about these things. I can’t help you with that situation, right? Kind of helping them maybe figure out how to organize themselves so that they can.

have access to other supports so you’re not the only person. And then like stepping in, I guess that was one of your questions, you’re like, when do you step in? Right? I think it’s really like when you start to see kind of concerns or red flags really, you know what I mean? Meaning that the new teacher, the mentee is really struggling in one area, they don’t seem to be solving it themselves they don’t seem to be figuring it out on their own.

Tim:

Correct, correct.

Janet:

But again, like I would take pause and my first action might be to talk to them about that instead of try to fix it, I mean, be like, I see you are struggling in this. I see that you’re not exactly sure who to talk to. Let’s sit down maybe with our department chair, the three of us, or, you know, I’m going to let them know that they need a little more support, that you need a little more support. So maybe they’ll come talk to you, you know? So again, that transparency and honesty piece of, you know, independence guidance. Now, backtracking just a touch. I think, like I said, a lot of times mentors think new teachers need all of the support, right? And so they’re like in all the time, like in their kids and doing all these things. And to be honest with you, the way I learn best is by figuring it out, you know, like failing and it’s kind of okay. I know that there can be concerns about, um, like enrollment and keeping that your department healthy and thriving, right? So I understand that if, you you’re like, as a veteran teacher, I’m always like, protective of our program, right? And so you don’t want to see somebody struggling because you know that that may impact down the line. I get that, right? At the same time,

This teacher is never going to figure out what they need to do until they are going through and sitting in the mess of that, you know? So I am a teeter totter, right?

Tim:

Yeah, yep.

Yeah, well, I mean that goes back to, you know, just what we’re talking about, like how would you want students to deal with these things? How do you want your students to learn? Did they learn by you telling them everything or did they learn by doing and figuring those things out themselves? And I think it’s a similar concept here. So I also wanted to look at this from the other perspective, from the perspective of a new teacher, because I think

If we go back to that idea of you don’t know what you don’t know, there’s so much out there. How do you figure out A, when you need to ask for help and B, like, how do you ask for help? I think that’s a skill that maybe is lacking with a lot of new teachers, where they don’t feel comfortable asking for help. They don’t know what to ask for. They don’t know how to ask.

From a new teacher’s perspective or from the perspective of somebody who needs help, how do you ask for guidance when you need it?

Janet:

Yeah, it’s really hard because as a new teacher or even a new to a new school teacher, I think there’s a sense of insecurity, right? You’re nervous. You want to feel like you’ve got it under control. You don’t want people judging you. You want to make sure you’re secure in your job. I mean, there’s just so many factors. I hope I’m not like freaking new teachers out right now, giving them this list of things to worry about. But you know, it just is. It’s just how you feel. Right. So sometimes, well,

A lot of times, and I see this all the time, right? It’s hard to ask for any help because you want to appear as if you’ve got it under control. Yes. But I will tell you as a veteran teacher watching or working with new teachers or new to the school teachers even, it’s very apparent when you are not doing well, like you’re struggling.

Tim:

May I take a quick step back before we dive into that? I would just say also, no one is judging you for asking.

No one is like, they have questions. They must not be good at this. No, nobody’s thinking that and so if you have questions when you have questions, please step forward. Yes. But that being said, you don’t want to let it get to the point where people from the outside, like you just said, are looking in your classroom and be like, yeah, things are not going well in there because it does become very apparent.

Janet:

Correct. I think in jumping on that, I guess the judgment or the frustrations from veteran teachers come from when new teachers don’t ask, right? So if they are aware, like, okay, now it’s gone a month and I can see you’re struggling, but you’re not asking, it makes me think that you think things are running fine, you know? And that is a bigger problem to me as a mentor or like, you know, something I’m more concerned about than you asking a million questions along the way. Because then it makes me think like, why do think things are okay? Why aren’t you asking for help? You know, what is the bigger problem here? And I, you know, we talk about this as if it’s all about the struggles, which is not right. The struggles could be minor, right? Like, I’m just don’t know how to grade in the gradebook. You know what I mean? Like, those are still struggles, right? Like, okay, if you’re not entering grades all the time, and I start to see that there’s no grades in there, and then that’s a bigger problem.

Yeah, and then parents start to complain and then administrators go, what’s going on? Like it really snowballs.

So, yeah, so nobody’s judging and everybody should feel safe to ask these questions, right? And I think as a mentee, somebody new, I get it. Sometimes you ask the questions, you feel bad, like you’re bothering them, you know what I mean? Right. Or sometimes you just feel like, shouldn’t be asking these questions, I should know them by now. Or sometimes you do encounter people who are just crotchety and, you know, they’re just like

No, I don’t or they’re like snappy at their response, right? So again, there could be other reasons or factors. Maybe you’re not asking them at the right time. You know, Two minutes before they’re going into their class or you’re going into your class to ask about that class.

That’s the best idea, right? But it happened. I mean, I still do this to him, right? I’m like, I forgot about this. And then they’re like, oh, Janet, like, didn’t you think about this yesterday? Yes, I did. But like, I forgot or whatever. And here I need it right now. You know? So I think knowing the time to ask and how to ask are two very important things, like you said. So the right time to ask could be finding those people in a quiet space. So maybe they’re prepping, cutting paper, for example. They’re like calm, they’re quiet, they’re working, they’re not doing something that takes a lot of brain power, right? Right. At that moment. so you can say, hey, you know, again, not just, hey, I’ve got six questions, let me just ask them. But like, hey, do you have time right now? Can I bounce a couple ideas off of you? is there a better time that we can chat? Or can we schedule a quick meeting? Like during lunch, can we just, can I ask you a few questions? Like, I am always open to answer questions. Yes. I am not always open to answering questions when I’m in the middle of writing an email to a parent home about a disciplinary issue. And somebody’s like, hey, can you show me how to grade this? No.

Tim:

No, no, still have my own job to do as you said, you’re not a full-time mentor. So finding the correct time to do that.

Yes. is really helpful. Yes. And then I think also how you ask, right? Like we said, you don’t just jump in and be like, hey, I’ve got all these questions. I expect you to answer them, right? But I do think like on a deeper level, what you need to think about what you want from that question, what kind of answer do you want? So being very specific, OK, so I’m really struggling with some, or first being honest.

I am struggling with some classroom management issues. Okay. First and foremost, we all have been there. We all still struggle with classroom behavior.

Again, there’s no judgment here when you’re struggling.

Janet:

Zero. Most people will be like, I got you. And then we’ll probably share like five more stories about the crazy things that have happened to us throughout the years. But like, so first, hey, I’m struggling with classroom management. I need another set of eyes on this. And maybe you can tell me if I’m crazy. Maybe I just need validation.

Or how would you have handled this moment if I tell you this scenario, right? Or also just like, I just need a vent. You know what I mean? Like, I just need to get this off my chest so I can move forward. Are you OK listening? And I think being very clear on what it is that you’re looking for, know, hey, can you come into my classroom and literally look at only this one student that I’m struggling with? That’s it. You can look at other stuff and whatever. But like, I really just need your eyes on this particular situation.

That will help filter out all the other stuff. And the mentor also won’t want to look at all the other stuff. If you just go in like, okay, I need help with this one kid, but also can you look at everything that I’m doing? Okay, well then you’re going to get a slew of feedback that you might not need or want. know, the worst is when you’re like, well, I know that that’s an issue. Like I’m still working through it, you know, and if it gets offensive and it’s like, but that’s the, if you leave it open, that’s what you’re going to get. So if you need something specific, you need to ask for that specifically, right?

Tim:

And I was going to say just being on the receiving end of those requests.

It’s very helpful when there’s something specific to talk to you know when somebody asks you to come in if they say hey will you just sort of look at my classroom management like no that’s that’s very broad. There’s a lot I can tell you about but if you say hey I’m worried about getting kids started on time and then transitioning into our activity can you take a look at what I’m doing and see what advice you have. That’s much more helpful. And then I know when I’m coming in that I need to watch for those things specifically. And it really kind of helps focus your attention and focus the conversation. You’re going to get a lot more out of that than some big general question of, you know, I’m struggling with X.

Janet:

Yeah, I think also as a mentee, like getting that feedback also is hard sometimes to filter through what you should be using and not using. I know as a, like I said, a veteran teacher coming to a new to my school, working with some veteran teachers who are like, did you try this? Did you try that? And they were like, okay, yes, yes, I did all that. Yes. You know, and it’s like sifting through. It’s like,

Okay, I realized I did not ask the question correctly. Like I need, I just need to vent. know, and I don’t need a solution. But knowing how to set those boundaries for yourself so that you’re not sitting in a 20 minute conversation that neither of you really need to be having, you know, like, okay, this is really helpful. Now I learned my lesson. Next time I will say, I just need to vent, or I need this one specific technique support or whatever it is.

as the mentee sifting through and trying not to be defensive about what you’re hearing because truly the mentor is there or any, like again, like we said, the mentor I put in quotes, right? Whoever you find is your person or people are going to want to give you so much advice because we have it, you know, because we’ve been through so many things. It may not work for you, but we want to, I mean, that’s the thing. It’s coming from a great place.

Like, I want to give you this because I’m so excited and I want you not to have to struggle like I did in those circumstances. And I think, you know, as the mentee taking that in, kind of remembering that, like these are, it’s good intentions and I need to figure out how to either ask for it differently or I need to sift through kind of that information for what I need out of it, you know?

Tim:

Yep.

Okay, one last big question before we wrap things up. It’s kind of broad, but what do you gain from mentoring other people and why do you think being a mentor is important?

Janet:

Well, first and foremost, some districts pay you. Not all of them.

Tim:

That does make it worthwhile.

Janet:

Yeah, several things, right? I think the connection that you forge with those people are really important. having that relationship with that person, whether they’re in your department or in the school, being able to see them and recognize them as like people who are working really hard and remembering that as you kind of go through your own journey with at that school or whatever, I think is really important, right?

I think for me, and maybe this is my own problem, is that I’m always reflecting too much and overthinking everything. Well, sometimes it’s like, just leave it, Janet. It’s fine. But I think when you work with somebody else who’s going through these, mean, even like I’m just saying, talking through this with you, Tim, has made me reflect more on my own practice and how I’m working with my colleagues.

So like the more I’m talking about it or having those conversations with my mentee, the more it kind of brings me back to, oh, right, I know what good teaching practices are. And I might not even be implementing all of those things all the time in my classroom. And it kind of gives me like pause to think about how best to run my classroom too. I think that that’s really important. So it really does make you a better teacher then in that realm.

And also just kind of refreshes, would say, your joy for teaching, because you get excited about it. You’re excited for this new person coming in. They’re excited to be there. And you’re like, I just want you to stay in this as long as possible. I don’t want you to get burnt out. So I’m here and I’m excited. And this stuff excites me. And sometimes when they say things, mean, a mentee has a lot to share. I mean, we say that about student teachers, new teachers. They have so much. They’re coming from a totally different experience. They’ve not been in the classroom.

It’s refreshing. They have ideas that are exciting. I mean, it’s like, especially when you’re just kind of going along your veteran self, moving along your same thing all the time, it can get a little mundane sometimes. so having those experiences just really help you connect deeper both with yourself and your school environment.

Tim:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, you know, excitement, those new ideas really make it a win-win situation. And I love that. And, know, we talked all through the month of November about paying it forward and, you know, giving back to other art teachers, being part of an art teacher community and being a mentor encompasses all of that. And it just has so many benefits. And so if you are able to, pay it forward, that’s a wonderful thing. But then, like you said, that really helps your own teaching through that reflection, through thinking deeply about what you’re doing and finding new ideas and new ways to improve. There are so many benefits for you as well.

And then to wrap up, I guess the last question would just be whether we’re talking about new teachers or mentors who are helping out new teachers, know, what advice do you have for those teachers that are looking for help or looking for resources in this area?

Tim:

First, I will do a shameless plug here. But, know, Tim and I have done a series called What New Teachers Need to Know. And it has a lot, right? We pack a lot into all of these things, into our episodes into the series. And I think that’s a great place to direct people, right?

Go listen to it. You don’t have to listen to all of it all the time, right? Just little bits here and there are going to help you. You’re struggling with curriculum. Go into that episode, listen to that, see what nuggets you can take from that, right? Obviously, Art of Ed in general is just here for you and for, you know, whether you’re a new teacher, you’re a student teacher, you’re thinking about becoming a teacher, you’re changing your career to be a teacher, or you’ve been teaching for 30 years, right? Or more, right? We have some of those. So the amount of resources that we have to keep you excited and help you have hard conversations and help you with parents and just all those kinds of resources, they’re there. mean, they really are. Sometimes it’s just, you guys were joking about the Pinterest, like the rabbit hole of Pinterest. It’s kind of like that, right? Like we have so much, you just type something in and you can have it at your fingertips.

And then of course our community, know, I was, was thinking of my, you know, finding your people, right? And we say this all the time, but we have our art ed community and it’s there. I mean, the questions people ask are things that pop up all the time.

Tim:

There are things that everybody is dealing with.

Janet:

Yes, and you have some advice from people. have questions. Some people ask clarifying questions to get more information. I mean, it’s just like that dialogue is there. So it’s easy enough to do that without maybe sometimes the, you know, face to face. Sometimes that can be hard or the closeness of the school. You know, asking your fellow art teachers across the country and across the globe, you know, might have different perspectives to help you navigate this, right?

Tim:

Mm-hmm.

Janet:

And then lastly, I will say my big advice to leave you with my mic drop. No, I’m just kidding. You have to remember that this is new to you or this is new to the person that you’re mentoring and you don’t have to have everything solved right away. It’s really important to really sit through it, sit through the mess and work through it with that support and guidance.

And remember that that is what the purpose is, that it is not going to be solved. It is not going to be easy being a new teacher, no matter where you’re at. And having somebody or multiple people in your life that can direct you, support you, guide you through this, it’s just gonna make your long-term self so much stronger, you know?

Tim:

Yeah, absolutely. So Janet, thank you so much for talking through all these ideas and processing all of these thoughts with me and having this conversation. Appreciate all of your expertise and all of your advice here.

Tim:

Thank you so much, Tim.

Tim:

All right, thank you to Janet for coming on. Always a great time talking to her. We always go long, but honestly, that was like 45 minutes instead of well over an hour as we do quite often. And as Janet mentioned, there are a ton of resources for you.

particularly the what do new teachers need to know podcast episodes, we’ll link to those. We’ll link to other things that are helpful for you. So you can explore those things a little bit further. And just to kind of wrap things up, I think one theme from our conversation kind of stands out to me. Mentoring doesn’t have to be formal. It doesn’t have to be.

you know, a very professional roadway to do things. It can be, but those everyday conversations can be incredibly powerful. And I think some of the things we talked about, some of the stories Janet shares, those can remind us that, you know, mentorship can, can grow out of our everyday interactions, just checking in with a colleague or

sharing some classroom strategies, asking questions, asking them in the right way, or just offering encouragement at the moment that it’s needed. You know, those seem like small things, but they really do create that foundation for trust and for learning and for making each other better teachers. And one other thing that I think is worth thinking about and worth remembering is that mentors don’t have all the answers. And we talked about what those conversations look like. Mentors are listening. They are asking questions. They are guiding other teachers toward their own solution, guiding the mentees to finding out what they need to know. And it’s important to remember that, you know, mentoring ultimately is a two-way relationship. You know, both people are growing, both people are learning and both people are contributing to, I guess, a sense of purpose and that sense of community in your school, and what you share together as art teachers, and keeping those things in mind and helping them guide the mentor mentee relationship is going to do a lot for everyone who’s involved.