The March Mailbag: NAEA Survival Tips, Art on a Cart, and Underrated Artists (Ep. 507)

In this March mailbag episode of Art Ed Radio, Tim Bogatz is joined by Amanda Heyn to give some advice for the upcoming NAEA National Convention and answer a variety of other questions. From light topics like underrated artists to heavier discussions about career uncertainty, this episode again offers some real talk about the issues art teachers are facing right now. The episode wraps up with a look at the State of Art Ed survey, including discussions about curriculum, behavior management, and showcasing student artwork.

Full episode transcript below.

Resources and Links

• • Join the Art of Ed Community
  • See all of the Community Events that Tim and Amanda mentioned!
  • Check out the State of Art Ed results
  • Making the Most of Your Conference Experience
  • Getting Started Teaching Art on a Cart PRO Pack
  • How to Work Smarter, Not Harder with Art on a Cart

Transcript

Tim:

Welcome to Art Ed Radio, the podcast for art teachers. This show is produced by the Art of Education, and I’m your host, Tim Bogatz.

Welcome everyone to the month of March and welcome to the March Mailbag. Always excited to go through all of your questions, everything that everyone has written into us. And joining me as always is Amanda Hine. Amanda, how are you?

Amanda:

Hi! I am moving through my life. Maybe I’ll tell you more during story time. But I’m very happy to be here right now. How are you?

Tim:

Excellent. I’m, you know, as always thrilled to talk to you. Maybe, maybe this 45 minutes of mailbag question answering can be kind of a reprieve from the rest of your life.

Amanda:

I think it’s going to be great. I am very excited. We have a lot of exciting things to talk about, a lot of exciting things happening in March, and a lot of good questions.

Tim:

Yes, absolutely. Okay, so let’s talk about that. Obviously, it is the week of the NAEA National Art Education Association National Convention in Chicago. So if you’re listening to this when we release it, the convention is happening in just a couple of days. And we are, I don’t know, really, really looking forward to going to Chicago and seeing everybody.

Amanda:

Yes. Okay, sure. If you want to meet us and know who we are.

Tim:

And I guess before we talk about that, we should introduce ourselves though. I’m sorry, we always forget to do this. If you want to meet us in person, please come do that. If you’re in Chicago, if you’re just listening to this, you can meet us now. My name is Tim Bogats. I host the Art Ed Radio podcast here every week and have been doing the podcast for

A long, time. was a high school art teacher for a long time, elementary art teacher for a little bit of time. And now I work at the art of ed doing the now conference, the podcast and other associated things. So, Amanda, can you tell everybody who you are for all of our new listeners?

Amanda:

Yes, my name is Amanda Heyn. I’m the Director of Community Engagement. So I oversee the teams that make all of our media content in the conference and the Art of Ed community. And I started my career as an elementary art teacher.

Tim:

Perfect, thank you. And nice to meet everyone who’s listening. If you do want to meet us in person, if you’re going to be at NAEA, come say hi. We are at booth 134, I believe. Is that right, Amanda? So if you have your little map and diagram of where everybody is, come see the Art of Ed at booth 134.

Or if you’re less into maps and directions, go in and turn left, and you’ll find us.

Along with being at the booth, we’re also going to be doing a few community meetups throughout the course of the conference, so be sure to check out the community for all the details. We’ll be posting in there about what’s going on. If you’re not a member yet.

You should be a member. It’s free. You can just go to community.theartofeducation.edu, join and kind of keep up with us as we go throughout the week at the conference here.

Amanda:

Yes, I’m very excited. We have some fun surprises up our sleeves. Jen has been messaging me with, you know, some fun things that are arriving at her doorstep. So

Tim:

Yes.

Amanda:

You will also want to download the app if you haven’t yet because we’ll be sending some reminders about where you can find us throughout the event. And if you have your notifications turned on, you will be able to kind of see those in real time. Can I say two other things that are happening in the community?

Tim:

Yes, well I was just going to say we just finished our second lunch bunch, which was thrilling and a lot of fun to do, but we do have a couple other things coming up in the community. So yeah, I would love for you to tell people about those.

Amanda:

Yes, so if you can’t come hang out in person in Chicago, we’ll be sad, but there are some other opportunities to meet with us virtually in the community. Events are also free in the community. So we have Art Club on March 12th, which is where we bring in a speaker and we all do a tiny bit of art making and a lot of learning, a lot of great conversation. We are excited to have Sarah Kreyesky, Art Room Glitter Fairy, joining us.

Tim:

Okay.

Amanda:

She’s going to talk all about art shows because obviously March is youth art month and we know a lot of people are putting up displays and kind of in the thick of it right now. So super excited to have her. And then we also have pop-up studio on March 18th. This is a more casual laid back event where you can come and just make art, bring whatever you’re working on. And we are going to be talking a little bit about teacher leadership and advocacy during that time together. So we’re super excited.

Tim:

Yeah, looking forward to both of those and obviously, you know, great fit with Youth Art Month and doing advocacy for your program. So I think both of those will be really, really cool. So, okay, story time. And I will just say, I’m not going to start yet, but we are tantalizingly close to getting back to our gardening podcast here because the weather is nice.

Amanda:

Yes. Story time. I know.

Tim:

A few bulbs are popping up. I’ve been to two gardening workshops in the past 10 days. So just saying we won’t drive in yet. So some people are thrilled. Some people are rolling their eyes already, but just just wait for April. What I was going to say though, fantastic parenting moment for me. My daughter does a lot of creative writing and she has come to realize that listening to hip hop

Amanda:

my gosh. Get ready, everybody.

Uh-huh. That makes sense. Yeah. Sure.

Tim:

It really helps her with her poetry. Like she’s listening to hip hop to learn about phrasing and structure and all this. And so I love that because, you know, we just for a long time, we just listened to a lot of like indie white girl music. And that’s fine. That’s wonderful. And then we’ve just been hearing a lot more hip hop coming out of her room.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Tim:

One day we are at dinner and just one of the, one of the great questions that, know, I’ve ever received as a parent, it’s just like, mean, dad, can you tell me about outcast? And my goodness, like I, I talked for 45 minutes. don’t know. Yes, I can tell you so much. And so I really enjoyed just kind of diving into a lot of hip hop that I listen to now.

But also a lot from like the 90s that, you know, a lot of old school stuff that I’m really enjoying. So that’s been a lot of fun. But yeah, just getting that question as a parent, was like, oh, this is what I’ve dreamed of. So it was great.

Amanda:

Yes. Yeah, don’t, I just love when your kids like the good stuff that you like. For me, it’s like when my kids understand.

Amanda:

Humor, like really weird humor. Do you know what I mean? Then I feel so happy. So I’m very happy for you. That’s very exciting.

Tim:

That’s good stuff. Anyway, what’s going on with you? You seemed a little, we’ll just say a little stressed, a little overwhelmed when we signed on today.

Amanda:

I’m a little frazzled. Yeah, the Hein household has been going through it a little bit. But it’s sort of a funny story. So first of all, oven broke. This story can just be titled like, this is not what I thought adulthood was going to be like when I was a child. Do know what I mean? It comes with a lot. So I think I don’t need to tell anybody here how bad the flu has been this year. And so first our oven

Tim:

Right. .

Amanda:

Our oven broke, and that was really sad. And then my whole family got the flu and that was really sad. And my youngest child was home for two straight weeks. Like just, you know, working parents out there, I know you’re the shock and horror on your face, right? It was that bad. And then I went down hard with the flu and the only way I could survive was taking showers. I took like six showers a day and fun fact, did you know in 1990 when our house was built, they just put the tiles in the shower right on the wall? There’s no waterproofing? No. Yep. So on shower number six one day, I was just sitting down. I was so sick. And then all of the tiles in the shower just caved into the wall.

Tim:

Like no, no like hardibacker? We’re just sticking tiles right to the drywall? Oh boy.

Amanda:

I was like, this would be cool if it was like a magical portal, except it’s now a portal to HE double honky stick if we’re using, you know, school appropriate words here. Anyway, so some mold remediation. It was really bad. But I think we’re up and up now and I’m so looking forward to going to NAEA and to, you know, like sometimes when I’m sad, I like to do some retail therapy and I would like to tell everybody about two things that healed my soul, which is one. I bought 200 Ohuhu markers.

I was like, will 100 make me feel better? And I was like, I don’t think so. I feel like this is relatable. Like, I want all the colors, you know, only all the colors. I think they do actually have one bigger set, but like, only a lot of colors will make me feel better because I the things have been so stressful. And then also, I took the opportunity to buy a pair of pants that are fully made out of sequins.

Tim:

Yeah, OK.

Amanda:

And I’m going to wear them to an AOE event. I’ve received them and they are perfect. I just, mean, sequins and markers, I think. What more do you need? know? a working shower. Yeah, that would be helpful. But honestly, this is…

Tim:

And what more do you need? I mean, maybe a working oven and all the walls in your house. But in the interim, like, wait, we’ve got markets and sequins.

Amanda:

Yeah, in the interim, this is really making up for it. So I’m excited.

Tim:

It really I feel like you’re turning things around with those two purchases, so I’m very happy for you. Yeah, yeah. OK. All right. Yes.

Amanda:

Yeah, you have to take things into your own hands. Yeah. I also, before we get into questions, because it’s almost time to open the mailbag, but I did want to mention, we forgot to mention the next lunch bunch. There’s one in March and it is going to be March 27th, which is a Friday at 1130 AM. So if you missed us in February, come hang out over lunch.

You can find all the events in the community. There is a tab on the left-hand side that says events and replays and you can RSVP and find more information there. So wanted to make sure to…

Tim:

Yeah, two clarifications that 1130 is central time and hopefully that’s close to as many people’s lunch as possible. But if you can’t make it live, it is recorded and you can check things out later on. So you can watch it whenever you’re eating lunch. But it is time for us to get to some wonderful questions and I would love for you Amanda to do the honors.

Amanda:

Thank you, yes. Yep. Yeah. Let’s go ahead and open up the mailbag.

Tim:

All right, our first question is actually from someone going to NAEA. This is Anna in Indiana, which just rhymes so nicely. I really appreciate that. Congratulations on living in the correct place. Anna says, I’m excited to go to NAEA and excited to see the AOE team there. What advice do you have for someone attending the national convention for the very first time?

Amanda:

Yeah.

Okay, this is, I love this question. Also, I think you’re forgetting it could be Anna. And then she would have to be from Indiana.

Tim:

You know my no my brain’s telling me it has to rhyme, so and I hope we’re getting this right. My apologies if not, but I feel so much better, yes, absolutely.

Amanda:

You can tell us when you meet us. Yeah. Okay. So number one, we’re very excited to meet you. Very excited. Number two, I do have some advice for you because NAEA or any live event you do and go to is so exciting. You are going to want to do all the things and I’m going to need you to not do all of the things. I have never been more tired than when I come back from a weekend at NAEA because it’s so fun. And you can really fill your day from 8am to 10pm. But I would advise you to plan some rest times in there specifically. I always plan like an hour or two to go back to my room and decompress during the afternoon because otherwise they just crash and burn. Make sure that you’re eating. Sometimes I forget to eat lunch because there’s just so much to do. So definitely when you are planning your schedule, you know, you have all the sessions and the keynote speakers and the events and all of that, dedicate some time where you say, I am going to sit down and do nothing, or I am going to go get lunch or whatever. because I find that building that in really helps me be able to sustain my level of activity and involvement over the duration of the three or four days that I’m Yeah. Yes.

Tim:

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, make sure you hydrate. Make sure you fuel and I know it’s tough like you don’t want to miss out on sessions to go eat lunch, but please go eat lunch like it’s it’s good for you. That gives you a small time to decompress and then once you have some food you will feel better and you’ll have more energy to do the rest of the thing. So that’s good advice. But what else?

Amanda:

Okay. related, do not wear cute shoes. Okay. You are going to want to wear sneakers. Your comfy is sneakers. Okay. Because you’re going to be on your feet a lot, walking to and from walking around the city. Don’t, I mean, go for fashion, but really the footwear is important. I once brought a brand new pair of like leather sneakers.

Tim:

Yes.

Amanda:

to NAEA and that was a huge mistake. My pinky toes took at least eight months to fully recover. So don’t make the same mistake I did. Okay, the other thing I would say is do make a plan. I think that you should look over the session topics ahead of time, but I would pick two or three for each time slot instead of just one because sometimes you’ll get into a session and it’s just not what you thought. It’s not for you.

And it’s okay to get up and leave. And that can sound really harsh, but, it’s okay to sit down and 15 minutes in realize, okay, this is not for me, or it’s going in a different direction than I thought it was going to go in. I’m more interested in another topic. so I think it’s okay to very quietly, obviously get up and go. if you’re less sure if a topic is going to be for you sit in the back. So you’re not disruptive, but,

Tim:

Yep.

Amanda:

I think it’s okay to leave a session. I don’t know how you feel about that, Tim.

Tim:

I would agree it’s okay to leave a session when I first started attending conferences, I felt like it was really rude. And then I talked to an experienced presenter and they’re like, no, happens all the time. And I think presenters are used to that. And they know that can be because you may want to see multiple sessions, you may need to go to lunch, you may have a meeting that you’re going to like, people don’t know or care why you’re getting up and leaving and they’re not going to take offense to that.

Amanda:

Right. Yeah.

Tim:

They’re not going to take it personally. if you’re a people pleaser and you’re like, I’m afraid to leave. Don’t worry about it. Just go ahead and go do what you need to do. Do what’s best for you. And I don’t think it’s any problem at all to quietly, respectfully get up and step away.

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah. I think the one exception is I’ve definitely been in a presentation where there were about five people and then I, and then I did stay. I was like, this is not for me, but if I get up, there’s going to be four people here and that doesn’t feel good to me. So, you know, read the room a little bit, but in general, if you’re in a pretty full session and you need to bounce, go ahead.

Tim:

That’s fair. Yeah.

Amanda:

Um, and then my last tip is to come see us at the AOE booth. Like Tim said at the beginning, we are booth 134, uh, and another plug again to join the community to see what else we are up to. But we have some very fun wearable swag that we will be giving out early in the conference. And then if we see you wearing that swag, you might get re-swagged with extra special items. So I believe that’s all I can say. But come find us early to get a fun wearable. That’s what I’ll say. I know a surprise raceway. It’s very fun. Do you have any thing else to add Tim? Other tips?

Tim:

I love the concept of a re-swag. That’s good. That’s good. Yeah, just a couple things. I would say choose your topics. It really helps to sort of narrow things down. It’s very overwhelming to see three days of presentations and hundreds of sessions and dozens of topics. And I would just pick a couple, you know, like

I want to try some new ways to do sculpture or, you know, something studio related, or I need help with classroom management and find multiple sessions that are specific to that. And you’ll get a variety of ideas that can help you. And it keeps you from trying to take in too much. really keeps you focused on things that can really help you. So I would narrow down the ideas that you’re wanting to get or the takeaways that you’re wanting to get and just choose a couple of.

I would say connect with people. Even as an introvert that I am, I really appreciate meeting people. I really appreciate connecting about art education. And there may be people you know there from real life, from online interactions, whatever. Say hi and make sure you have a conversation with them.

But also you can meet people that you don’t know yet. Maybe it’s somebody that you just follow on Instagram, but you want to say hi. Or maybe it’s somebody that you don’t even know. It can just strike up a conversation while you’re waiting for a session to start. And a lot of times you can make a really good connections there, which can be really fulfilling. So I would encourage people to do that. Third, I would kind of echo your point, Amanda, the, to do what you need to do to refresh, you know, take your time, make sure you’re taking care of yourself.

but also do the things that are fulfilling for you. You don’t need to be learning the entire time. And there are other ways to learn it. Like you’re in Chicago, go see some architecture, go visit some museums, spend some time making art, hit up some new restaurants. Like whatever is going to make it a more enjoyable experience for you, a more worthwhile time for you. I think that’ll be great. And then I was just going to say, as you were talking, Amanda, I remembered that we did a whole podcast about making the most of your conference experience, whether that’s an online or in-person conference. So I’ll link to that in the show notes if people are looking for even more advice. All right.

Our next question is from Jeff in Alabama. And Jeff said, I was listening to your podcast with Kyle Wood about arts madness, and it’s a cool idea. I’m going to try it in my classroom for sure this year, but it got me thinking about what artists are popular and why they’re popular.

So I wanted to send you a discussion question that you and Amanda could do in the mailbag. I appreciate that Jeff is thinking about us. Which artists do you think are overrated and which artists do you think are underrated and why? So Amanda, I gave this one to you early so you can do your homework. So who who’s on your list of overrated artists? Yeah.

Amanda:

Yes. Yeah. This is so fun to talk about. Okay, first of all, this is not going to be a surprise to long time listeners. Sezon, it’s just sorry. It’s just not my jam.

Tim:

I knew that was coming.

Amanda:

I will admit it is better in person, which is probably true of most art, but it is boring to me. I also have a personal vendetta against fruit. So, I was reflecting, I hate fruit. I have three fruits that I eat. We don’t need to get into it right now, but most of the ones Cezanne paints are not fruits that I eat and I just, don’t want to look at them and it’s fine. It’s fine.

Tim:

He doesn’t need an exalted place in art history, in your opinion. Yeah.

Amanda:

I don’t have like, it’s not horrible, I just think it’s overrated. Yeah. Yeah.

Tim:

Can I say it would be really fun sometime to answer the question of which artworks are worse in person? Okay, I’m going to note that down, but who else is on your list for overrated artists?

Amanda:

That would be fun. Yeah. I would say like, well, Louise Nevelson. Okay. I love her, but I don’t know. Okay. So the next one is just all of Rococo.

Tim:

Fair, fair. Yes. The super pink frilly swing. Yeah, it’s all dress. Yeah.

Amanda:

Any artist who does Rococo, that one with the swing by is it Fragonard? I don’t know how you pronounce it. It’s so silly to me. Yeah, and like the lady just, she looks like Amelia Bedelia. Her face is a little bit strange and I just feel like the subject matter is so frivolous. It’s so uninteresting to me. I hate the color palette. hate it. Something about it gives me like a visceral reaction. I just don’t think there’s a lot to discuss there. And I don’t I mean, I get I get it in the arc of art history, but I just don’t care. Yeah, not for me.

Tim:

Yeah.

It’s not for you. That’s fair. Quick question before you give me another artist. If we had a Cezanne fruit painting next to a terrible Rococo painting, which one do you like better? Are we just eliminating? OK. Good. But if you had to choose. OK.

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah. I like Cezanne better. Yeah. I don’t like either of them, but I like it better. Mostly because of like the color palette. I will give him the color palette. Like there’s a richness. Like there’s a niceness about it. Yeah. and then my last one is sort of off the wall. It’s Thomas Kincaid.

Tim:

I appreciate that. All right. Okay. Like who everybody’s grandparents have hanging in the living room.

Amanda:

For people who don’t know. Yeah, that 90s guy. It’s the painter of light. Okay, sir. But it’s just cottages. It’s so many cottages, cottages during the day, cottages at night. But I do have to respect his game. I do think he was very prolific and very successful as a business person. Everybody. I had a Thomas Kincade. I’m pretty sure I should ask my mom.

Tim:
I was going to say the marketing was just out of this world.

Amanda:

I believe there was one hanging above the bed in our home. I think that was a Thomas Kincade. Yeah. Yeah, you should be. Who do you think’s overrated?

Tim:

Okay, I never had a Thomas Kinkade in my house and I’m okay with that.

Well, I’ve talked about this endlessly on the podcast, Picasso. well, I, again, he’s made 30,000 works and I think four of them are good. And so I just, no, no. And somehow he’s just become synonymous with like a great, like the great name in art. Like, he’s, he’s no Picasso. no, no, no, thank you.

Amanda:

Yeah. Also, Picasso stole a lot, so we could get into that, but just his ideas are maybe not that brilliant when you look at where he was getting them, you know, or that he was stealing them.

Tim:

Yeah. Yeah, and somehow, yeah, he’s gotten so much credit for things that he does not deserve credit for. So he’s not gonna do it for me. And a lot of people get mad at me. My wife gets mad at me for not liking Picasso. Like we will go to museums and Picasso like, I’m gonna skip this one. And she gets very upset about that.

Amanda:

Yeah, yeah, that’s about a way to say it. Yes.

Hahaha

Tim:

That’s fine. He’s just yeah, he’s not for me. Second one on the list is Jeff Koons. I Yeah, just way too commercial way too slick. just he feels slimy. His work feels slimy and I just just inauthentic like there’s no authenticity with his work. And he doesn’t even make any of it himself, which I also and it’s just full of ego and so many different things that are just sort of antithetical to what I like about art. So Jeff Koons is definitely not for me. And then third on my list. go ahead.

Amanda:

Yeah, that’s fair. I was just going to say I do like a shiny balloon dog. Like not because it’s art, just because I like shiny things. Do you know what I mean? Like would I say it’s great art? No. Do I get excited when I see it? Like, yeah.

Tim:

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, that’s cool. That’s fine. Again, all if we go to the museum together, I’ll let you check out the shiny balloon dogs and I will find other things to do. And then third on my list for overrated artists was the minimalists. Just anything minimalism. No, thank you. You know, I can appreciate some simplicity, some repetition like Donald Judd every once in a while. Like I kind of like that.

Amanda:

Okay, great. disagree. Well.

Yeah. Yeah, that’s fair. That’s very fair.

Tim:

But for the most part, just, I don’t think there’s a ton of thought put into that. I don’t think there’s a lot of technical skill. And again, it’s more about the conceptual idea than anything that’s actually being created, which I can appreciate. But at the same time, like it does not excite me whatsoever. All right, let’s go to the underrated artists like.

Who are the people that you enjoy that more people need to know about?

Amanda:

Yeah, okay. Well, I would say I’m gonna try to say this the right way. Artemisia Gentileschi? Lesky? Yeah, key. Okay, like her, what is it? Judith Slang. my God, so many hard words. Holo, Holofernes? Am I doing okay? Yeah.

Tim:

Gentileschi, think. But yes, that’s a great answer for this. Yeah, yeah. Judith cutting off the head of Holofernes. Yeah.

Amanda:

I love that one. I feel like it’s so much more visceral than any of the others. They’re all disturbing, but hers is like so good.

Tim:

Yeah, it’s like next level graphic and vibrant and exciting. It’s good.

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah. And by so good, I actually don’t mean show it to your students, maybe like AP, I don’t know. This is not like a classroom safe artwork, but I enjoy it. And I would just say also every other overlooked woman from art history that didn’t get the attention or respect or opportunity she deserved that we don’t even know about because they’ve been lost to time. So grouping them all in with Artemisia as my number one pick.

Tim:

I like it. Great answer. Who else? OK. Duct tape banana? Yeah, yeah.

Amanda:

Yeah. Okay, number two. Okay, I like a lot of conceptual art that other people don’t. So Maurizio Catalán’s Comedian, which is better known as the banana duct taped to the wall. Love it. I feel like if art isn’t about new ideas, then what is it about? So I really enjoy artists that challenge the concept of what art is. I was going to mention that

guy who, I don’t even know if I can say it on the podcast, put his poop in a can. You know that guy?

I just think that’s interesting, disgusting. Like, I don’t know what he was thinking, but it really got people talking and I just…

Tim:

Trying to remember the artist’s name, Manzoni, I want to say. Like Pierre Manzoni, Piero Manzoni. Yeah, but like the MoMA has like a can of poop in its collection.

Amanda:

Maybe. I think it’s Pierre, yeah.

Yeah, I know. Which like, wow, like imagine if you got that in a museum. Just wild, wild to me. So I like that. I also like that the duct tape banana was sold and I believe it was you got one roll of duct tape and three bananas or something and it was sold for either, I don’t know if it cleared a million dollars, but it was a lot of money, right? For this idea. And I think anybody who can sell an idea is quite interesting. And then my third one is Olafur Eliason. I just think his stuff is so cool. I love that he uses light as a medium and space as a medium. I think that’s interesting. I love how immersive his pieces are and interactive. The Milwaukee Art Museum has a really simple piece of his that’s, I can’t remember if it’s six or seven glass globes. And as you walk, one way they fade from white to the colors of the rainbow and then you walk the other way and they paid from black to the it’s just so beautiful and simple and interesting in it. just like work that sort of heightens your senses in a way so he would be my number three. What about you?

Tim:

All of those answers so very cool. My first one kind of going back to your thing with art being about new ideas Marcel Duchamp like he’s obviously a big name in art already but I think he gets dismissed a lot because of like he did a urinal and turned it over and like that’s all people know about him and he’s honestly like probably one of my top five favorite artists I think just his ideas about art

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tim:

About who artists are and how we create art really kind of set the stage for all of the intellectual ideas that we kind of go back and forth with all of those new things that you’re talking about. A lot of that goes back to Duchamp. And so I love almost everything that he’s put together and what he got the conversation going about, like all of those topics.

Amanda:

Yeah. Yep.

Tim:

about, like I said, what art is and who is an artist. I think it’s super important stuff. I really appreciate all of that. I also… Go ahead. Sorry. Okay. And then Ana Mendieta is another artist that I absolutely love. She does all sorts of silhouettes of her body using natural earth like earthworks. and they’re all temporary in some way. So like some will be made of sand that wash away in 12 hours and others are burned into a tree trunk and it’s still temporary cause the tree will grow over it, but it’s temporary in terms of like 20 years. And so just, you know, everything is ephemeral, but to different degrees. And so it’s a very interesting way, way to do things. And.

You know, I originally thought like, is this an artist I just love, you know, but nobody else really appreciates. But then I would show her work to my students and they loved it too. Like, they’re like, this is really, really good stuff. So they appreciated that for sure. I wish more people knew about her. And then third, was going to say Jacob Lawrence. I love all of his stuff. His migration series is just monumental.

Not only in the narrative, obviously, but just the design, the technical elements I love. The formal parts of his work are so clear and so well done, but he also tells these incredible stories and just has this historical capsule with his work. I think he fits in with a lot of the European modernists, but doesn’t really get mentioned with them at all. And so I think we need to talk about Jacob Lawrence more.

So I would put him on the underrated list for me for sure.

All right, moving on to our next question, a lot less fun than the last two, but still important to talk about. This is an anonymous email that came in and said, I’ve been teaching for three years in a district that doesn’t value the arts. I was just told recently that neither of my schools will have space for me next year and I will be art on a cart both places for the foreseeable future.

If I leave, think the district might not replace me and it makes me sad to think that the kids might not have art. They deserve it. But thinking about teaching from a cart makes me very frustrated and I don’t know when I would ever get a classroom. Does anyone enjoy teaching art on a cart? Can I make it work? What would you do?

Amanda:

This is such a good mailbag question. Okay, this sounds, can I start? I have thoughts. Okay, so first of all, that sounds really hard. That’s a really tough.

Tim:

Yes, please do.

Amanda:

It’s a tough position to be in and there are a couple of avenues I think you need to explore as you think through it. So first of all, I want to commend you for thinking about the kids first. That’s really idealistic and kind and I would also like to remind you that whether or not a district provides art for students is not something that you need to take on. It’s not your responsibility. You’re not in charge of it.

And so it’s okay for you to look for a position that feels like a better fit for you. in terms of the what would you do part of your question, if I didn’t want to teach art on a cart, I would look for another position. And I think that’s valid. And I think that’s okay. But you also asked, does anyone enjoy teaching on a cart? Can I make it work? And the answer is yes, there are absolutely people who enjoy teaching art on a cart.

And in fact, we have an excellent pro pack called Getting Started Teaching Art on a Cart. And in the first module, the facilitator, Lindsay Moss talks all about the joy of teaching on a cart. And, I was part of sort of the development of this pro pack. And when I first saw the outline, I was like, my gosh, what do mean the joy of teaching art on a cart? Isn’t everybody just, you know, like trudging along and we hear so many stories of all the schlepping and the ice. And I was confused about that. Right.

Tim:

Yes.

Amanda:

But Lindsay really made me see it in a whole new way and she has direct experience teaching on a cart, making her a great person to talk about this. But she said she found a ton of positives about teaching on a cart. The biggest one being you don’t have to maintain an art room, which is actually a huge time saver. You have to develop systems and processes that allow you to clean up within the timeframe that you’re in another classroom.

You have a storage closet, but not a whole classroom to maintain and she found a lot of joy in having time for other things when she didn’t also have to maintain a whole space. We also have a bunch of free articles and podcasts about teaching on a cart. So if you’d like to sort of dip your toes in or try to learn more about how people approach that teaching situation, one is called how to work smarter, not harder with art on a cart. Wow. That is a tongue twister. We’ll link it in the show notes in case you didn’t catch that. which is by Sarah Krajewski, which really breaks down how to think about teaching on a cart into simple steps and has a few helpful downloads as well. So I would encourage you to check that out. so I would say if you decide to go for it, I think the biggest thing when teaching art on a cart is thinking about how to simplify, right? How can you simplify? How do you make things more manageable?

And we definitely have resources for you here. And of course, you could also ask in the Art of Ed community, that would be a great question to post in terms of who teaches art on a card? Have you ever switched from one or the other? What are the pros and cons? And I’m sure our community members would have some advice for you. yeah. Yeah.

Tim:

I was going to say you’ll hear a lot of perspectives and I can maybe clarify your thinking a little bit, but I was going to talk about Lindsay Moss as well because she 100 % shifted my mindset with that pro pack and just like you said, finding the joy in doing things a little bit differently. you know, it’s really nice to not have, you know, 30 watercolor sets on your counter that you need to dry out and you need to clean up the yellows and then you need to wash the bread like you don’t have to worry about that stuff because you don’t have room for it. And so there are some serious benefits to that. You when when I first started, I was teaching elementary art and one of my colleagues was art on a car and she’s like, I love this. And I really did not understand it. And I don’t think it’s for me personally, but

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tim:

She has taught for almost 30 years. Like she’s ready to retire now. She’s been on a cart for almost that entire time and she loves it. So it is out there. So to answer the question, like, yes, you definitely can make it work on a cart. But going back to, know, what do we do in this situation? I think it’s tough. Like, Amanda, you, you kind of touched on this, but staying just because you’re afraid that art might disappear is

something that’s really heavy like that is that is a big burden and honestly that’s not a burden that you should try and carry by yourself like one person can’t make up for systemic failures all by themselves like it’s a much bigger picture than than one thing you can do so kudos to you for for thinking about that but again that’s much bigger than than one teacher and I think kids deserve a teacher that is enjoying their job and not one who’s struggling or one who’s resentful about being in the job or not having a classroom or even somebody that’s at risk of burning out because they’re in a tough situation. So I would encourage you to think through those things. You know if you can make it work, go for it like you absolutely can love teaching on a cart and that might be the space for you, but.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Tim:

If you want to find a better space for yourself, there is nothing wrong with that. Thank you. Yes, yes. OK, I was going to defend myself, but then I realized my answer was completely nerdy.

Amanda:

Yeah, 100%. Well said. All right, can we close the episode by talking about the State of Art Ed survey? Like total nerds?

Tim:

I was actually very excited to see the State of Art Ed results. You know, we do that survey every year. We publish the results in the magazine. We’ve done podcasts, break like entire podcasts, breaking it down before, but there’s always really, really good information in there. So I’ll let you start a minute since you’re so excited to get into it. Like, what did you notice? Or like, what did you find interesting in there?

Amanda:

I’m so excited. Well, I just…

Yeah. OK, before I dive in, I just want to give two sentences if you don’t know about the State of Art Ed. Like Tim said, it is a survey we put out every year. is the largest, to our knowledge, the largest survey of art educators in the world. It’s been running for at least six years, if not longer. And we have thousands of art teachers fill it out. So it’s very statistically significant.

Amanda:

And what I love about it is you can go to it and see how things are trending in our dad, how much prep time is quote unquote normal, right? What is the breakdown of how many class, or I’m sorry, how many kids are in your class? and you can kind of see how you compare to sort of national averages. And that might be really worthwhile for you to look through if you’re looking to advocate for yourself for something specific to your administration.

It can be a really powerful tool. anyway, the things, I have like three things, I think that kind of stood out to me. So the first was behavior. Behavior just sort of was a through line throughout the entire survey. We ask teachers what they’re struggling with. Like, what is your biggest challenge as an art teacher? And this year behavior was number one.

Tim:

Yeah.

Amanda:

We also ask a question about causes of burnout and challenging behaviors topped the list there as well. Other things that were weighing heavy on teachers minds included a lack of time and heavy workloads. So, again, plug for the community. There are often a lot of great questions in there. Somebody just posted the other day, help I have, I forget how she phrased it, but it was something like,

I have a classroom of kindergartners and it’s like a WWE wrestling match every day. Can you help me? And lots of people chimed in with, you know, suggestions and asking clarifying questions and just really made the teacher feel supported.

If you are also struggling with behavior and you need, I feel like sometimes behavior situations are so specific to your situation and it feels like you’re alone, but I guarantee someone else has had the same problem. so reaching out for help can really be great. So anyway, that was one thing that kind of popped into my mind is if you’re struggling with that, like come talk about it with us. We’d love to help you brainstorm. Yeah.

Tim:

Absolutely, incredibly helpful.

Amanda:

the other thing I found interesting was for the last few years, digital art has been at the top of the list when we ask what medium do you want to learn more about this year? And this year that flip-flopped a little bit and printmaking and fibers were number one. And we’ve seen sort of this, reckoning with AI that I’m wondering if that’s playing into the results here or a sort of a reckoning of like,
schools rolling back their device policies and saying, actually, you can’t bring it. It has to stay in the office. It has to stay in your locker. They’re really cracking down on personal device usage during the school day, which personally, I think, is a great thing. So I don’t know, maybe signaling sort of a shift to more hands-on art processes, maybe wanting to engage kids with things that are more tactile.

Tim:

Yeah.

Amanda:

So I think that’s interesting. Also in the community. Oh, go ahead.

Tim:

Yeah, I was just going to say, I think that definitely signals a return to that. see so many conversations about what’s going to engage kids, what can we do that’s hands on, what can we do that’s not on a screen. And so that doesn’t surprise me that we’re wanting to find more things like

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to also mention, if you are someone who wants to learn more about fibers, I think it’s gonna be April. We’re still working out details, but I believe Art Club is going to be…

fibers focused in an upcoming month. So again, just watch that events tab in the community if you’re interested. We also have studio courses about fibers. We have pro-pecs about fibers. Lots of, and printmaking as well, lots of resources there if you want them. Lots of options. Okay. And then my last, yeah, one more takeaway was that 40 % of teachers have taught in an area besides art ed, which I thought was so interesting. So it ranges from general,

Tim:

Lots of options out there. Anything else?

Amanda:

art, to, I’m sorry, yeah, general art to special education, to other discipline. And I just think that probably makes for some unique strengths and challenges in the classroom. I was wondering, Tim, would you ever entertain teaching a subject other than art? Like if you couldn’t teach art, but you had to teach something else, what would you teach?

Tim:

Mm-hmm.

I feel like it would be English for me. You know, I love literature. Well, now that my daughter writes a lot of poetry, I’ve come to appreciate poetry more. But, you know, I’ve always been decent at writing and I feel like just kind of the joy of reading and writing would transfer for me. And so I think I would enjoy teaching English. what about, I have my guess for you, but what would you do?

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s funny. I was going to guess English for you. Mine would be science. Yep. I just, love science. I love the overlap of sort of like the scientific process and the creative process. I were huge nerds in my family. Um, we love outer space and engineering and all of that. And so I think I, I think I would have a lot of fun.

Tim:

I was gonna say science.

Amanda:

teaching science. my gosh, earth science, sign me up.

Tim:

Yeah, I think you’d bring the joy of gems and sparkles to your beat then. I was just gonna add a couple things that I noticed. You mentioned a lot of teachers saying lack of time as a struggle and it.

Amanda:

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That’s true. Yeah. Yeah.

Tim:

Definitely still is a struggle, but we saw fewer people saying that, which I really like. you know, I think it’s always going to be a battle we’re fighting, but I think fewer people have that at the top of their list. And I’m hoping that districts are realizing that teachers need more plan time. And I hope people are getting more plan time or just more time to do what you need to do in the classroom.

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tim:

Along with the printmaking and fiber sing just the emphasis on learning and making not only for for kids, but for ourselves as teachers to have seen a lot of interest, especially over the past few months of teachers creating on their own. And so I think that can be something that people should lean into a little bit more. And we’ve talked ad nauseum about all the benefits to that, but I really, really appreciate it. And then one thing I saw toward the end of the survey, 85 % of teachers are writing most or all of their own curriculum and also designing their own resources.

This doesn’t surprise me because that’s what I did. Like here are the standards, go get them. It’s something unique that we face as our teachers. so my turn to plug something, know, Flex curriculum can be a huge help for that. Like if you need an entire curriculum, it’s there for you. If you just need to pick and choose a few resources, those are there for you. If you just need a good follow-up lesson in a couple of weeks,

Amanda:

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Tim:

It’s there for you and so you can kind of pick and choose. It’s flexible, obviously, and so you can find what is there to support you. So if you can get your district to get flex curriculum for you like that can be a game changer and knowing that huge majority of us are writing so much curriculum. I think that could be a huge benefit to a lot of teachers. Alright, Amanda.

Amanda:

100%. Yes.

Tim:

Any closing thoughts before we wrap up for NAEA for following up on these discussions for the month of March in general?

Amanda:

Sure. Yes. I am so excited to meet people now that the community has been open, you know, for a year plus. we know people and we’re going to get to see you in person. And that’s just so, so exciting to me. and like I said, if you can’t make it, come hang out with us virtually in the Art of It community. We’d like to see you there. If you are doing an art show this, month, good luck.

Tim:

Yes, that’s what I was going to say. I love, I love seeing people’s pictures from art shows. So before we get to the art show, just words of encouragement. You can do it. It’s a lot of work. It’s worth it. You will love it. Your kids will love it. Your families will love it. After the fact, please post pictures, whether you’re on Instagram or in the community. I love seeing pictures of people’s art shows. So send them to us via email. Post them in the community. Share with us on Instagram, wherever you are on socials, like let us see what’s going on in the art show. We love seeing what kids are doing out there. All right, Amanda, thank you so much. It’s been fun chatting about all of these things with you and we’ll have to come back and do it again next month.

Amanda:

Sounds good, see you then.