Classroom Management Conversations: Draw the Line with Liz Brent (Ep. 484)

Welcome to Art Ed Radio, the podcast for our teachers. This show is produced by The Art of Education. I’m your host, Tim Bogatz.

In today’s episode, I will sit down with art teacher, Liz Brent, to dive deeper into the topic that I think is on everybody’s mind right now: classroom management. Liz is a veteran teacher from the Chicago area, and she brings more than a decade of experience and I hope a lot of good insights into this conversation. Now, Liz is part of the Draw the Line YouTube series from The Art of Ed. It’s a series designed to give art teachers some good strategies, some concrete strategies for handling classroom management and everything that goes with it. Kyle Wood was on last month to talk about the series, and I wanted to have Liz on as well. They’re the two stars of the series. So I’m excited that she will be joining today.

Now, the series Draw the Line has been incredibly popular. The last episode was all about dealing with parents, which I know is a very difficult topic to navigate. The episode coming next, I think it’s out on Thursday actually, is about helping kids become more confident and more independent in the art room. So, definitely worth checking out.

Like I said, I feel like the topic of classroom management is always important, and people have so many questions and so many issues that they’re facing at the beginning of the school year. So I’m hoping that this conversation is timely, I’m hoping it’s worthwhile, because it is easy to feel overwhelmed by classroom behavior, especially at the start of the year. It can be difficult to set the boundaries you need, and I think classroom management is honestly a never-ending challenge. So that’s why I’m glad we can have these conversations. It’s important to share advice, and it’s important to remind each other that you’re not alone. You’re not the only one facing these issues. I had the chance to talk to Liz about a lot of this in person, and like I said, she’s got great advice. Just watching her in this series, I think she and I have a lot of similarities on how we do things with management. So I’m really looking forward to this podcast interview. Let me bring her on now.

Liz Brent is joining me now. Liz, how are you?

I’m good. How about you?

Doing great. Very excited to talk to you. Before we start, I guess I should say welcome to the show. I would love for you though to tell us a little bit about yourself. Can you just give us an introduction for everybody who’s listening?

Yeah. I’m Liz Brent. I’m a high school art teacher from the Chicago area, and I’m going into my 12th or 13th year of teaching.

All right. Nice, nice.

I need to count.

Now, I wanted to have you on to talk a little bit about the Draw the Line series. We had Kyle on recently to talk about his part of it, but I know people are super interested in classroom management. So, wanted to chat with you about things too. Can you tell us about the Draw the Line series, what it’s all about, and how you became a part of it?

Yeah, good question. Draw the Line, like you said, it’s all about classroom management and ways to really focus on it in the art room. It’s funny how it came about, because I originally applied to be a video content creator with Art of Ed. And I hadn’t heard back. And then I got an email like, “Oh sorry, you weren’t selected.” I’m like, “Okay,” and I was sad. And then a while later I got an email about possibly doing some stuff about classroom management. So I was asked to answer some questions about my classroom management and things I would do for different situations. And then that’s when it happened, like, “Okay, this will be some really good information to share for Draw the Line.” So I was really excited to do that.

Yeah, that’s cool. Well, I think it’s an excellent series. I think you do great stuff in there I really enjoy.

Thank you.

Hearing your advice, really enjoy seeing you on there. I don’t know, I just have a few questions about, I guess, classroom management in general. I guess my first one is very broad, but just from your perspective, from your experience, why do you think it’s important to think about classroom management? Why is that important for teachers? And a big question a lot of people have, how can teachers get better at classroom management?

Mm-hmm. That’s a good question. I would say it’s super important because it’s really the foundation of everything in the classroom. My first year teaching, I learned that quick because-

I think we all did our first year.

Yeah. I did not have classroom management like I needed to. So I felt like chaos my first semester of teaching, just trying to figure things out and figure out how to get the kids to listen and do things in a timely manner. Because my first year I actually didn’t have a mentor, and I think that was a big part of it.

Okay. Yeah.

So after that year, I was teaching somewhere else, and that’s when I was placed with a mentor and had different professional developments I went through, and getting observed and things like that. And that’s when I started to see like, “Okay, this plays a big part,” especially getting the chance to observe other teachers, like veteran teachers.

Yeah.

So that really showed me like, “Okay, this is how a classroom can function. Here’s what you have to do to get it to be that way.” I would say that’s one big tip to get better in classroom management as a teacher, is to look towards a mentor or take some time to observe other teachers who are doing well. Multiple, not just one, because everybody has different ways of doing things, but you can pick up different things from different people. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. No, I think that’s good advice. I don’t know, there are principals that will encourage you to do that or admins that will let you take some time to go see. Like you said, I think it’s good advice to see a lot of teachers because you can take a piece from this person, piece from this person, and figure out what works for you.

Yeah, mm-hmm.

I guess my other advice to go along with that for people would be to ask those teachers too, like, why do you do things this way or why do you have it set up like that? Like you said, it may not be perfect for you, but just hearing your reasoning can really help you think about what you want in your room and what works for you.

Definitely.

I think that’s some good advice, so thank you.

Nice. Thank you.

And then, I don’t know, I was thinking about just some of the stuff you talked about with the Draw the Line episodes, and I really liked your ideas about parent communication, especially with introducing yourself, being proactive about telling them what’s going to be happening in the classroom. I guess my question for you is, why do you think that communication is so important? And what benefits have you seen as a teacher from being open, being communicative with parents?

I would say I picked that up from having, let’s say, students who weren’t very involved in class. And I finally would reach out to the parent about that, I would find out, like, “Oh, they weren’t really aware or they didn’t know how the classroom function.” Once I spoke to them, then things kind of changed. So that’s when I started from the very beginning, just introducing myself, explaining how the class worked; for those who came to open house, really taking the time to talk to them about that. Especially the struggling students from the beginning too, reach out to their parents even more just with different updates and not necessarily just the negative stuff. And that really, really made… They felt more connected, because a lot of times, especially high schoolers, they don’t talk to their parents about classes.

Oh no, no, they do not.

Parents don’t know what’s happening.

At the beginning of your last answer, which I love by the way, you talked about kids who aren’t engaged, and I think that’s a huge issue for so many teachers. I feel like we hear that from teachers everywhere. One of the biggest issues we’re facing right now is kids who don’t want to do the work, kids who are not engaged, they’re really apathetic. I would love to know just how you deal with that in your classroom. How do you handle kids that don’t want to do the work, and how do you get them engaged in what you’re doing in the art room?

Yeah, that is definitely a thing. Majority of my students, I will say, I get excited that they are interested in art and want to be there, but there’s always a couple, maybe three, four who aren’t engaged, don’t want to be there. They’re there for the credit because they have to be or whatever. And I really, really try to connect with them, I don’t want to say even more than everybody else, but I really try to find out about their interest and what else they’re into and why they’re not interested. I used to really try to push it like, “Oh, art is so cool, and maybe you’ll get better at it,” and they just don’t care. So I started to just take the route of telling them like, “Hey, you know what? Okay, you’re here just for credit, right? Okay, I know you want to pass. I’m sure you don’t want to be here and come every day, and then fail from not doing anything.”

Yep, yep.

I’m like, “So let’s just get through this. I’ll tell you what you need to do to actually just get credit for participating, for trying.” I’m like, “If you just try something every day, I don’t care if it’s not the best art in the world to you.” I’m like, “But you got to participate. You got to do something on paper.” I’m like, “You got to be busy.” I’m like, “Look busy the whole time, and I think you’ll be okay.” And through all of that, I’m still trying to have little side conversations about their other interests, about their jobs or whatever else. Try not to make it all too classroom-heavy.

That has seemed to help to really make them say like, “Okay, fine, I’ll get through the semester. I’ll just show up, do some stuff and I’ll be done.” Because otherwise, yeah, they really don’t want to fail. They already come in assuming it’s easy, like, “Oh yeah, it’s an easy A,” and I tell them like, “No, you’re not going to get an A. You’re not going to pass if you don’t do anything.” So kind of just try to work with them where they are and just treat them, I guess, in a human way, from a human perspective of like, “Why are you here? I know you don’t want to be here, but let’s see how we can make it a good experience either way.”

No, I appreciate you talking about that approach too, because I feel like so many times we hear this advice of like, “Oh, just get them engaged,” and it’s going to be like this magic elixir that’s going to fix everything. But a lot of times that’s not the case. No matter what kind of show you’re putting on, they’re not going to.

Right.

So sometimes you do, you just need to break it down, and be like, “Hey, this is what I need you to do. If we both can just get you to that point.” Even if it’s not, like you said, not great artwork or not the greatest effort, just do it enough to get by. Sometimes that’s all you need and that’s going to be enough to keep them maybe not engaged, but keep them at least focused enough to find a little bit of success.

Exactly.

I like that. I like that. And then, lastly, I guess I would just love to finish with any kind of advice you have. Are there any ideas, any strategies or techniques that are consistently working for you? Anything that you want to share or any advice you have for people who might be struggling with classroom management?

Yeah, I would say the best advice that I’ve received from experienced teachers that has really helped me is just really connecting with students and building relationships. I used to always hear that and be like, “Okay, yes, I connect, I talk to them. What do you think?” But the best advice I got was, connect with every student every single day and don’t let it just be about class content.

One thing I really made a point of was saying hello to every student by name every day. That can sound normal, like, “Oh, yes, teachers, we always talk to everybody every day.” But I’ve had students tell me like, “I go to math class, I go to science or whatever class,” they’re like, “you’re really the first teacher who talked to me today.” They’re like, “Most classes is just, we’re spoken to as a group, they’re not meeting you at the door.” Or they might go half the day without talking to anybody if it’s not a class discussion day. So I really make it a point to say, “Hey Johnny, how you doing today?” as they come in. And then I’ll try to connect with them again during the period and be like, “Oh, how’s your little sister? Weren’t you helping her with something?”

So I try to find something to connect, have a conversation, even if it’s short, because I only have 40-minute classes, but with everybody at least once a day. And then I’ve noticed that that turns into them being more social with me and they’re more likely to listen. They’re interested in what I have to say, versus if I never actually get to know them, they don’t really want to talk to me or they don’t want to respond and actually get involved. So it’s like really being personable with them does help, and it really gets more buy-in from the students.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s great advice. Yeah, like you said, once you have that connection, once you can talk to them about things outside of class, that’s going to make them more open with you, but a lot of times that’ll make them more open with their classmates and give them other things to talk about and start to build that kind of community in your classroom that really pays so many benefits.

Yes.

I love all of that advice. So, Liz, we appreciate all that. So thank you so much for coming on and chatting with me for a little bit, sharing some of your expertise. We’ll make sure everybody continues to watch Draw the Line for even more of your wisdom. So thank you for all of it.

Yes, thanks for having me. I’m excited about the series, and I hope everybody finds some good information from it.

As we wrap things up here, I think that conversation with Liz leaves us with a really important reminder: Classroom management is not about perfection; it’s about growth. It’s about getting better every year, and honestly, every class can bring new challenges, but they also bring opportunities to refine your approach, to learn from colleagues, and to strengthen what you’re doing in your art room. There’s a lot we talked about today and a lot that I think is great advice from Liz: leaning on mentors, observing other teachers, and just borrowing those ideas that are going to fit your own teaching style. There’s a lot there to think about and a lot of advice that I think is fairly easy to act on if you’re looking for ways to improve.

The Draw the Line series, the YouTube series, that exists to give teachers those exact kind of supports. Kyle and Liz are both offering strategies that are practical but also flexible enough to make your own. Going back to that idea of borrowing ideas that fit your own teaching style, listen to these conversations, watch those videos and figure out what’s going to work for you. Which ideas do you want to take and make your own?

I think Liz said, and I think this may be the biggest takeaway, just the reminder that classroom management is foundational to everything else you do as an art teacher, talking about what a struggle it was her first year. But then as you get better at it, other aspects of your teaching have the opportunity to get better as well. When you have that management down, it opens up so many opportunities to improve in other areas. So just creating the classroom space that your students want and need, creating routines that work, being able to stay calm when those management challenges come up, all of those things, doing those things well allow you to focus more on what matters most, which is helping your kids create and grow and love learning and make incredible art.

Art Ed Radio is produced by The Art of Education with audio engineering from Michael Crocker. We are so glad that you joined us for the episode today. We hope it was helpful for you. If you know someone else who might be helped with the conversation or the information in this show, we would love for you to share it with them. We also appreciate all the ratings, reviews that listeners leave for us. So if you have a few seconds to give us a five-star rating or even leave a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen, we would love to see it. Thank you again, and we will talk to you next week.