Classroom Management Conversations: Draw the Line with Kyle Wood (Ep. 480)

Welcome to Art Ed Radio, the podcast for art teachers. This show is produced by The Art of Education, and I’m your host, Tim Bogatz. As we are starting back to our school year, the big topic on just about every art teacher’s mind is classroom management. And whether you are a first-year teacher just trying to figure things out, or whether you’re a veteran who’s fine-tuning your management systems, we all know that classroom management is important.

It’s the foundation of what we do because good classroom management is going to allow us to foster learning and creativity and connection. It’s what allows us to guide our students and maintain our sanity amidst the chaos, and most importantly, just foster an environment where all of our students are feeling safe and feeling supported. So our conversation about classroom management today is going to be with Kyle Wood.

Kyle is a friend of the pod. He’s the host of the Who ARTed podcast, and he has done so much for The Art of Ed between articles, YouTube series, Art of Ed NOW presentations, and so much more. He’s got a very calm, thoughtful presence in his classroom. And in the conversation today as well as in the Draw the Line series, he talks about the realities of managing behaviors and setting boundaries and developing systems that actually work.

And he brings some humor to it and he has a clarity of vision and a deep understanding of what works for him and what works for his classroom and his students. And what I appreciate about that is his systems are practical, they’re grounded, and most importantly, they’re personal. He really emphasizes the importance of finding what works for you and not just copying what might work for someone else.

So like I said, the Draw the Line series is excellent. It’s him and Liz Brent. And if you’re looking for just real talk about what happens when things are going off the rails, or maybe better yet, how to keep things from going off the rails, that series is for you. So you can check out Draw the Line on AOE’s YouTube. You can watch the full series on the channel.

And of course, I am required to tell you, don’t forget to like and subscribe while you’re there so you do not miss the updates, you do not miss the new episodes of Draw the Line. But we have a lot to talk about with classroom management. So let me bring on Kyle now. All right, Kyle Wood is joining me. Kyle, welcome back to the show once again. How are you?

I’m doing well. Thank you so much for having me.

Well, thank you for coming on as always. I guess we should just start. How was the summer for you? Was it good? Did you enjoy your summer?

Summer’s always good. Summer’s always too fast, but this is my second year not doing summer school, and so that has been a game-changer for me and my personal sanity. I never minded teaching summer school. The kids were cool, but man, once you step back and take that break and you realize how much more time you have with the kids and all that stuff, it’s been very nice.

Sometimes it may be too much time with the kids because now my kids have had open access to ask me for another dog, and so we’re spending too many hours going to shelters and adoption places and all of that, but that’s a good problem to have.

Oh, that’s fantastic. So are you going to end up with another dog? These are the important things that people need to know. You have another one coming?

So we currently have one. It’s a rescue. She’s sweet. Her name’s Hershey, a brown dog-

Perfect.

… we got after a family trip to Hershey Park. And now my son, he’s been lobbying really hard for a pug. And so actually, this afternoon we’re doing the home visit with the shelter.

Oh, my goodness.

Because they’re very serious. They want to make sure it’s going to a good home, and I feel good knowing that I’m working with people who are doing good for these animals. So fingers crossed we’ll get something.

Well, congratulations in advance on puppy number two. That’s pretty exciting. Before we dive into all of your life, we have a lot of new listeners, especially with the new school year coming around. Can you give us an introduction just to let people know who you are, what your teaching is about, whatever you want to share?

Okay, so the Cliff’s notes version of this. I am Kyle Wood. I teach in the suburbs of Chicago K5 art since 2007. So yeah, I’m old, but I love the job. I have been really interested in choice-based stuff for a long time before I became aware of TAB. And I’m not strictly in any model, but I love all that stuff.

I actually got to write for The Art of Ed for the last year, and now I get to do it a little bit more. And so I’m going to be writing another article a month for a while. So that’s been an amazing opportunity. And I also do some podcasts. That’s actually how you and I first met.

I was going to say, this is how we first connected.

Yeah, you were nice enough to join me on Who ARTed: Weekly Art History for All Ages. And you were nice enough also to have me in April when I launched my new podcast, Fun Facts Daily, which I love learning new things. I love learning and I love sharing that stuff.

Great. Perfect, perfect. So our teachers, if you’re looking for more podcasts, two great recommendations there, especially if you love art history, Who ARTed is great. If you’re just looking for general knowledge and fun stuff, then yeah, Fun Facts Daily is a good spot to go for both of those. But Kyle, I wanted to have you on today to talk about the new Draw the Line YouTube series that’s all about classroom management.

And I know you’ve talked about writing articles for AOE, you’ve done Art Ed NOW Conference presentations, always willing to share your stuff. And so I was excited to see that you were going to be part of the Draw the Line series. And so my question for you is, first of all, can you tell us a little bit about the series?

But then also what made you want to be part of that series? What made you want to share what you’re doing? And why do you think that classroom management, behavior management, however you want to frame it, why do you think that is an important, an urgent topic right now for art educators?

Yeah. Okay, so Draw the Line is a series with not just me, but also Liz. We’re two veteran teachers. I think between us it’s been 30-plus years of teaching experience there.

Very nice.

And she does high school, I do elementary. So we’re getting those different perspectives and we’re talking about the wild stuff that we all see in our classrooms on a regular basis and just how to manage it, how to handle that stuff. We share what’s worked for us in the past and what we think might be helpful to people as they’re trying to sort through just how do you tackle this.

As far as why I wanted to do that, if you didn’t pick it up from the introduction, I am a very, very Type A person who loves to do a lot of different work. And I, in some ways, am probably an ironic choice for the Draw the Line series because I say yes to every opportunity that comes my way. But I like doing stuff.

A lot of artists do create because they have something they want to express. I am the type of person who just, I love the act of doing stuff and creating stuff and revising stuff. And so the opportunity to take on another project is just very satisfying to me. I like to be able to make and put stuff out there. So when they said, “Hey, we’re looking to talk about classroom management and how to do that,” I like being able to, “Okay, here’s a tip, here’s a tip, here’s a tip,” and compile that stuff.

And I was just going to say I think you’re a good candidate for that because like you said, you’re experienced, but you also have the right demeanor for a calm classroom. And we’ll talk about that a little bit more. But I think just between the experience you have, the systems that you have and just the way that you’re able to reflect, to think analytically about what works, why it works, and then be able to share that out, I think all of that comes together really well and makes you a good host for this. But what else were you going to say? I’m sorry I interrupted you.

Oh, no, just the other thing about me is as much as I say I’m a Type A person in some respects, I’m also a very lazy person. And so I find systems that minimize my workload. I’m very good at finding how to draft through these things and how to get a lot done without it feeling like a huge expenditure. And I think that’s something that hopefully some people will benefit from.

No, I think that’s good. And actually, that was one of the things I wanted to ask you about was the systems, because in the series you talked about creating systems for studio work. So can you talk about that or just any other kind of system? What is a system you have for classroom management that you can share that you’ve implemented before that works for you? Something that’s made an impact in your classroom?

So one of the biggest things early on, and this is embarrassing to admit, but I used to have stuff that would go on the drying rack and then sometimes I just didn’t get around to clearing the drying rack right away. And then it’s like, “Okay, which class did this go to and where does this belong?” Because you’ve always got the no-names in there and like, “Oh, what class was this kid in?”

And you had 11 classes back to back and it’s tough to know who put their stuff where.

Yeah. So one of the systems that I found that’s just super easy when kids put stuff on the drying rack, I always keep kids’ work in a class folder. So just when stuff has to go on the drying rack, after they load all their stuff in the drying rack, I just put the class folder on top of that rack and then I put down an empty rack and then it’s ready for the next class.

So I have a literal separation and basically a label for what is in this section of the drying rack. And that takes me five seconds of effort to make sure that my drying rack is organized every time, even if I don’t get around to clearing it for two or three days.

Yeah. I was going to say, and it feels so simple, but a lot of times you don’t think about those things, you don’t know the best way to do that. So even though those easy solutions, I suppose, can be super helpful. Now, I also wanted to ask you too, I mentioned it just a bit ago, I feel like you have this very even demeanor. You always try and keep calm and collected, and I assume it’s the same way in your classroom.

So knowing that about your personality, about how you run things, how do you handle it when something chaotic happens, whether that’s behavior or a giant paint spill or who knows what it could be? We’ve all been in the classroom, there are a million different things that can come up. But when something chaotic is happening, how do you handle that when it’s in your art room?

So I do try to keep it at a even keel for everything. That’s one of those things that I was taught from an early age. You just, no matter what’s happening around you, you keep it calm because if you panic, you’re not thinking clearly. And so I’ve always tried to keep that sort of tone and be methodical in what I’m doing.

When I’m setting up the initial rules, expectations, procedures, all of that, I talk to students about literally the tone that I want, just like, “I want this to be a calm, welcoming, accepting space.” I regularly use phrases like, “Calm voices and kind words help everyone feel better” and stuff like that in setting the expectation.

So then I also tell students I don’t like yelling. Yelling feels to me uncontrolled, it feels chaotic. And that’s where I feel opportunities for problems. And I say, “I don’t think any of you want to be yelled at, so here’s what I need from you. I need you to listen to me the first time I say something, and I need you to respond to these cues. I’m going to ask for your attention. I’m going to do it in very common ways.”

I’m the kind of guy who’s always like, “Make the subtext text.” So I will literally stand in front of the room and say, “I need your attention in three, two, one,” give the cue to the transition and literally what I’m asking for. I do your standard lights off to get people’s attention. But the thing that is most effective, if I need everybody instantly, is I taught my students a call and response. I say, “Hear ye, hear ye,” and they all will respond, “Mr. Wood, the Great, has something to say.”

I like that a lot.

It works on so many levels, but because they think it’s funny, they do it really well, but it’s also an instant thing instead of a countdown to transition. So if there’s something that’s really unsafe that I spot from across the room, it’s a hear ye, hear ye moment, “This can’t wait. This is a major announcement, everybody tune in.”

Other stuff, it’s a little bit more calm. Nobody’s perfect. I’m not going to lie. There have been times where I have had to raise my voice and yell to get people’s attention, but because that is the outlier, it is very effective.

I was going to say it can be really, really effective once. So yeah, I’m with you on that one. I want to ask you, obviously all of these systems, all of the things that go into creating that calm classroom, keeping that even demeanor for everyone, that takes a while to develop, that’s something that the teachers come to over years.

And I want to ask, are there differences from Kyle Wood first starting versus Kyle Wood now? How has your thinking around behavior management evolved or changed since your early days of teaching? What do you think about differently or what do you do differently now that you’re, what, 18 years in?

I think I’ve become more comfortable in a lot of things. Early on, because I’m such the bleeding heart type of person, I had a hard time saying, “No, that’s wrong,” establishing those boundaries with kids because I always want to be that supportive, encouraging person. And I remember people would say, “Oh, there are no mistakes in art.” Isn’t that Bob Ross’s whole thing?

Yes, yes.

There are no mistakes. But there are. There are. If I put a car battery in the kiln, that’s a mistake. There are hard lines. And for me, it was recognizing the difference between what’s a true no-go and a boundary that needs to be respected, and what’s something that’s a little murkier where you can give kids the discretion?

Because early on, I was like, “Oh, but I want it to look like this, and so I’m going to steer you that way. But I don’t want to be a jerk, so I’m going to pretend that everything’s okay.” And what really helped me was understanding the media, what are things that can work and what literally can’t work and the curricular goals much better, doing that deep dive into that sort of stuff.

As I learned more as a professional and deepened my content knowledge, it helped me to be more successful in that. But I also feel like I want to tell people just a concrete thing, because learning that stuff is years long and I’m still not where I want to be. I don’t think you’re ever at that stage. But what I would say is if you’re looking for a quick fix in a system you can put in, one of the biggest game-changers for me, and this is silly, but I invested in 200 color-coded file folders from a certain river-themed online merchant.

But having all of my tables have their own color and a separate folder for every table in my classroom, for every class that I teach and all of that, having a very clear system like that where kids knew exactly where their stuff was. I’ve got my student work cabinet. Within the cabinet, every grade level has a shelf, and each class has their own folder in there. And then there are subfolders divided by the colors of the tables. And it was probably a $40 or $50 investment in color-coded folders, but I use them every year, and it has made such a difference in my sanity in keeping track of stuff.

Interesting.

I love it. And it’s silly, but it’s one of those things where it’s like, “Oh, I wish I had known that,” because I had tried, “Oh, a box top here, I’m collecting all the paper box tops and stuff to put stuff in,” or “I’m trying this, I’m trying that.” But man, color-coding your stuff and just clearly labeling it was the best thing I ever did, and it didn’t cost much.

And as we always say, clear is kind. And if you have systems that are super clear for your students and obviously clear for you, that makes it so much easier for everybody to know what they need to do. So I think that’s a really, really good piece of advice. And then I have just one last question for you. I think that for a lot of people talking about classroom management and thinking about all the things that could go wrong in their classroom, it can really bring up a lot of anxiety for people.

And so I would love to know what your advice would be. What advice would you give teachers who are listening to this conversation or they’re watching the Draw the Line series and they’re feeling overwhelmed by the potential for classroom disruptions, they’re worrying about all the things that could go wrong? What advice do you have for those people?

So as a very, very anxiety-prone person, one thing that I have learned in my life is that you cannot push out those intrusive thoughts. What you need to do is bring in other thoughts and reorient yourself away from what could go wrong, because that list is literally never ending.

I was going to say that you can always come up with new things that might go wrong or new things that could go wrong. You’re right.

Instead, what you have to do is just envision what does success look like for you? What is comfortable for you? And I say that because the best system is the one that you can implement regularly. I can talk about how much I love my color-coded file folders, but if that doesn’t fit your style, then you’re not going to do it regularly. And I can talk about, “Oh, this call and response works for me,” but if it doesn’t work for you, if you’re not going to say it, if it’s not natural to you, then it’s not going to work.

Whatever system you have, it needs to be something that fits you and your personality and your style, and that looks different for everyone. But start by just imagining what’s your perfect, idealized dream scenario for the classroom. And then think about, concretely, in that vision, in that fantasy world, what are the kids doing? What are you doing? What does that look like? What are the action steps that you need to get to that vision? My biggest advice is reorient yourself away from the problems and focus on the outcomes that you want and the strategies that’ll get you there.

No, I think that’s really, really good advice, Kyle. I appreciate you playing therapist for us and telling us about our intrusive thoughts, but also, like you said, giving some clear directions on how we can reorient ourselves and think differently about things. So I really appreciate that. So anything else you want to share before we take off today?

I don’t know. I feel like we should have a disclaimer that I’m not a qualified therapist. I got a bachelor’s in coloring and a master’s in ones and zeros. So take everything with a giant grain of salt.

Okay, that’s fair. That’s fair.

The last thing I would say is when you hear people like me talking about this or you read the articles, remember even I’m not perfect. We all have those bad days, and you got to dust yourself off and move on because the problems will come up. No matter how good the system is, no matter what you put in place, unexpected behaviors are going to happen.

And sometimes you’re going to respond in a less than ideal way, and that’s okay. It’s not great. You don’t want that, but we’re all human. Give yourself grace just like you give the students grace, and it’s a learning experience for you as well, and it gets better if you keep with it.

Yeah, very well said. And like you said, give yourself grace, things are going to happen. Sometimes you’re going to do great handling and sometimes you’re not, but every one of those times is a learning experience. So yeah, I appreciate those thoughts as well.

So Kyle, thank you so much for joining us. Great as always to talk to you, and we will get people to your podcast, we’ll get people to Draw the Line and maybe even check out some of your articles on The Art of Ed. So thank you for all of it.

Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Thank you too, Kyle, for coming on. I think that conversation is just a good reminder that classroom management is not about being perfect. It’s about being consistent, it’s about reflecting on what you do and finding the systems that work for you and work for your students. And I think a big point that Kyle makes, something I talked about in the intro, is just being able to make things personal and do things that work for you.

And for Kyle, that’s fun, silly, but it’s effective. The “hear ye, hear ye” thing, that’s not something I would ever be able to do with high school students, I don’t think. It doesn’t fit my personality, but it fits Kyle’s personality, it fits his classroom, and it works for him. And when you find those classroom management things that fit your personality and fits your style, I think that’s how those things become sustainable.

I think for so many teachers, classroom management can be a huge source of anxiety. We worry about everything that could go wrong and the disruptions that are coming that we can’t predict, and whether we’re doing enough to keep things in order without stifling creativity. And Kyle’s advice to reframe all of that by focusing instead on what we want our classrooms to look and feel like, I think that gives us an effective mindset shift. So instead of bracing for chaos or what might happen, we can move toward a calm and confident style of classroom management that is going to make our students feel safe and feel supported.

So if you’re wanting to think more about this, talk more about this, learn a little bit more, go ahead and head over to The Art of Ed’s YouTube channel. Check out Draw the Line. Kyle and Liz Brent share a lot of authentic strategies that are based on their experience, that are based on their teaching. And their strategies are helpful, but they’re also encouraging. And if those are things you need, this series will be perfect for you.

So make sure you like the videos, subscribe to the channel, and even share them with another teacher that you think might benefit. Because when we’re supporting each other, when we manage our classrooms, we are all going to have stronger, more compassionate, more effective learning environments.

Art Ed Radio is produced by The Art of Education with audio engineering from Michael Crocker. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. We will be back next week with another episode with Angela Matsuoka talking all about ceramics. We’ll see you then.