Pushing the Boundaries with Found Object Bookmaking (Ep. 473)

Welcome to Art Ed Radio, the podcast for our teachers. This show is produced by The Art of Education, and I’m your host, Tim Bogatz.

I am looking forward to welcoming Juana Meneses back to the show today. Juana is an artist and educator and friend of the pod. We’re going to be talking about bookmaking for a couple of reasons. Juana is an instructor for the Art of Education University amongst doing a lot of other things. But there is a studio book arts course coming this fall, very exciting course teaches both traditional and modern bookmaking practices working with all kinds of methods and techniques. So no matter what types of books you may Joana create, they’re going to be there for you and you can utilize the course for your own studio practice, but you’ll also walk away with ideas that’ll help your classroom. You can find that class in the course catalog and register right now for the fall. Now Joana will also be presenting at the Art Ed NOW Conference on August 1st about found object bookmaking. And I can’t wait to see her presentation.

So we’re going to talk today about a lot of different things revolving around bookmaking, including how she’s using everyday materials to promote storytelling and reflection and resourcefulness and creativity, and just some of the great things that she’s making. And I’m looking forward to the conversation. So let me bring her on now.

Okay. Juana Meneses is joining me now. Juana, how are you?

I’m doing good, Tim. how are you?

I am doing great. I’m very excited that you’re back on the show. I know you’ve been on the podcast before, but for people who don’t know you or are hearing you for the first time, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself, your teaching, your artwork, just anything that you want to share.

Yeah, absolutely. So I live in Miami and that just seems to be a very important thing because we’re subtropical climate, so that’s kind of important as it really informs my work. And I’m originally from Colombia, and so that also kind of ties into everything I do. So that’s important.

Yeah, yeah. And can you tell us a little bit about your artwork like what you create, what you do as an artist?

Yeah, so my work is always about identity and who I am and also place. So the identity of place is really important. That’s why this whole Miami thing is a very key ingredient. And also just the plants around me, I’m really interested in all of the plants and the flowers and the fruits. We have a lot of fruits around where I live. I have an avocado tree, things like that. And so the flavors and sense of place are really important to me and they then feed into all of my work. I also teach for the Art of Ed, and so I teach watercolor and bookmaking and all of those things are part of my practice. Literally, I have little packs and I have a backpack with all these supplies. I am very nerdy like that, but it’s true.

But honestly, it’s the only way I can keep making because just like everyone else, I have a family, a full-time job, the whole thing and having those supplies ready with me is really important. And it also really informs my work. So everything I make has either a sketch of maybe a plant. I’m really obsessed with these ferns right now, these sword ferns. And so things kind of feed into one another very organically. So yeah, if you were to look at my work, you would see the botanical reference, the place reference, the geography, hopefully you kind of feel the weather.

Yeah, that’s really cool. I really like that. And can you talk a little bit about the book arts that you do and just some of the stuff that you’re working on right now?

Yeah, I think, well, so I’ve always made books, always, but the things that I make now, because that identity piece is so important and it really feeds into the content of my work, I’m using a lot of found fabric.

Found fabric?

Yeah. So I literally have one I was just working on that I love and this one, so this is kind of funny, but my mom would actually be shocked, but she gave me these napkins, of course, not to cut up into a book, but I did. And I just feel like, well, first of all, they speak about her and the importance of the table and gathering, not anything fancy at all, but more like that act of gathering. And so I really love to use those textiles that have some sort of meaning. And then, I say found materials, but a lot of this is like this is a water color that I cut up. And so it’s found in the sense that I didn’t make it maybe for this book, but I cut things up. I’m not very precious about my work.

So if I feel like it’s a cool texture, I will cut up the watercolor and put it together. And so what I’m making now are these, well, I’m making these huge watercolors, but I’m also making these small books, all with these found objects. And then there’s the line as well that is important to me. So they’ll have marker lines, but then they’ll also have stitching and thread and lots of layers. I can keep going obviously. That’s what I-

I love that though because it creates all these different layers of interest, not just visual interest, but just trying to think through the stories and like you said, all of the meaning that’s there. And I think that’s really impressive and it makes for some fascinating work. So let me ask you, you just said you’ve been creating book arts, you’ve been making books forever, how did you first discover book arts? What drew you to the medium, either as an artist or a teacher? How did you first find things? How did you first get started there?

So I started making books more seriously in grad school, I went to art school, but I didn’t make them as a piece, as an artwork. I made them to process. I made them to process ideas. Like I remember one of the first ones I made, I had, again, some watercolor pieces and I had some prints and I just sort of cut things up. I had these remnants and in my school they had a spiral bound machine like the generic, very basic, which I think is part of the charm of it, is that, now years later, I have studied all these binding techniques, but really it started with me, I think first I went to the printmaking studio and they had a big line and I couldn’t get into that one. And literally I just went to the office.

Okay.

And so it was just, the first one was just like a black spiral bound thing. But I realized that when people came to my studio and they were looking at my work, I would use them to help me explain my work, just to talk about my work. And I noticed that people really loved that like there was something else that happened when they held that book. So that’s how it started.

I feel like that tactile sensation is really unique for a lot of people because even if you are into three-dimensional work, like you’re not picking up sculptures, you’re generally not doing a lot with ceramics that you see and so you have that sort of unique sensation, that unique experience of being able to touch and hold and flip through. And so that is a really unique experience a lot of times when it comes to art.

Yeah, definitely. That tactile quality is huge. And it is something that I also play around and think about now more consciously in my work. So I’ll find fabric that has the lace, kind of appliques, this kind of thing like netting, I really like. Even the fruits, the veggie, like the tangerines, that’s the things I love, I collect them. It’s too much. It’s a little manic. My husband’s like, “Okay.” But things like that I do think about.

And then the other thing that I noticed that is unique about the book is that, as you said, the audience or the viewer is having that moment with the book that is really intimate and slow, also they can, or fast, they decide what that speed is in the viewing moments, which I think it’s cinematic. If you think about it, it’s like cinematic arts where you’re building scenes.

Yes. That’s a great way to describe it.

Yeah. So it’s like that. And also you can think about it as it’s additive. So as the viewer comes in, they keep looking and it doesn’t have to be a linear story for that same additive quality to happen. So those things I really love about the book, whether it’s an edition or a one-of-a-kind book, it always happens and it’s always present, these qualities. So I love that, I love about the book. I think it’s a very unique art form, honestly, and that it can be super-fast and immediate and you can make something very high quality, meaning that you’ve spent a lot of time on, so.

Yeah. And then let me ask you, I know you teach a lot about book arts. Do you find that books resonate the same way with your students? Are they generally interested in diving in and trying to tell those stories through book arts?

Yes. I have seen… So I used to teach in the art classroom. I used to teach high school students and for them, it was just an amazing vehicle because they could tell their story. Right away, even if it’s something as basic as an interest, just want something that you’re interested in and they can just elaborate and most of the time they do have those really specific things that they love to talk about and they’re just obsessive about, so it’s a great way for them to be able to use that form to talk about themselves, to really show others what their interests are.

And what I like about the book form too is that it can be, like I said, really involved or it can be as simple as a zine. I think about zine making all the time and that sort of informal way of making a zine, of making a little book is so easy. It’s a great entry point for high school students. And then I feel like it’s the same with elementary, honestly, and middle school students. With elementary, currently where I teach, it’s a very process-based program and we have students just throw a bunch of things together in a very basic kind of pamphlet, zine, and they love it, absolutely love it.

I love it. No, that’s very cool. Anytime you can find things that kids connect with that, I think that’s a really good experience for them.

If we can circle back to you, you and your own art making, I would love to know a little bit about your process. If you can just give us a little bit of insight. Can you walk us through your creative process when you’re starting a new project, how do concepts and structures and materials come together for you? How do you process all that? What does it look like when you’re first starting a new project?

Yeah, I think there’s different layers to it, but some of the most important things that happen for me is I do think materials are important and they speak to me and I’ve been kind of referring that through our talk, just because if those materials are specific, then they already have information for you. So I think for me, the napkin thing, I’m obsessed with these napkins right now. I’ve been dyeing them and cutting them up and doing all these different things, but at the same time, I think about, I literally go to the thrift stores near me, in the neighborhoods near me, and I’ll buy different dresses that have different patterns or colors, and I don’t overthink that. If I love it, then I’ll get it.

So materials are very important for me. And again, this is a crazy kind of hoarding situation, not really, but a little bit in that I try to keep all that together like in a Trader Joe’s bag, for example, like I have a couple of them. And I’ll just throw it in because honestly, I don’t have long hours and hours throughout the day. I don’t have that time.

Right, right.

But I really work hard so that when I’m ready and I have 15, 20 minutes, it’s easy for me to get this thing, to get this fabric, to get this maybe… The other thing that I’m really into are the security envelopes from the-

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So I’ll collect a lot of them. Again, it’s easy for me to grab them. And then what I do is, and I have a bunch of sketchbooks, I’m also a crazy kind of sketchbook person.

Okay.

So I’ve been saying I’m really interested in the botanical information in my area. And what I do is I try to do a daily drawing of a plant around me, and it could be anything in my garden, anything on my walk with my dog. It’s not like I’m going to a botanical garden every day; that’s not happening. And I’ll repeat, I’m very flexible, but yes, I walk around and I just pick up plants and I use them in my sketchbook. And so my point is that what I do is I grab one of those sketchbooks that has all the information already there. And so if I have my material, I have my plants, and I just start either drawing on the fabric because drawing, I’m such a, for me, like paper and a pen, that’s where my happy place.

Yes.

So just something as basic as that, I’ll just start making a drawing on the piece of fabric or paper, whatever it is. And I already have all of the ingredients. I don’t overthink it because I’ve been drawing and collecting stuff all the time. So that’s my starting point. It’s important for me to gather. I gather the drawing, I gather the information, then I gather the fabric, I gather the paper. So a lot of found, I do the same thing with paper where I’ll just have, I have folders with found paper, so it’s all there. Those are the ingredients, and then I can just throw it all together.

Yeah. And it just naturally kind of flows from that collection, from that work that you’ve done already. That’s interesting.

Yeah, yeah.

I like that a lot.

It’s very easy.

Okay. Now I want to ask you to, I know you’re, yeah, that’s awesome, I know you’re presenting next month at the Art Ed NOW Conference with the Found object bookmaking. Can you tell us a little bit about that, just what you’re going to be planning on doing, what people can look forward to with your presentation?

Yeah, so I’m super excited about it. For me, these books and this kind of making, it’s really like, it’s something that I love. It’s something that’s very intuitive for me, and I love to share it with people. I love to share it with my students, and I’d love to share it with everyone. So I’m very excited about the presentation. So what I’m going to do is honestly just walk you through my process. We’re going to gather materials, the found objects, so nothing very precious at all. That’s part of it, I think that that’s part of the charm, honestly-

Okay, yeah.

… because it’s really about those specific materials. So anything that you’ve gathered that you love, maybe a piece of paper, maybe student work, anything at all, or maybe an old drawing that you’ve been working on, but maybe you haven’t finished actually, but you still love something about it, that’s something that you would be able to use. So what I’m going to walk you through is this process. How do you put this together? And then once you have the ingredients, how do you bind it? What are the different ways that you could bind it from something very easy to something a little bit more, not harder, but just different ways. And that way, not only do you have the option to kind of experiment with that, but then also you could bring it to your students. Whether you have younger students, middle school or high school, they’re going to appreciate having choices as we know.

Of course, yes.

Right? Like everybody does. And so that’s basically what I’m going to be walking you through.

Okay, that sounds great. I’m really looking forward to it. Obviously, I get the sneak preview of everything, but I’ve already started to think about what materials I want to put together, like you start to think about everything that we’re going to create. So I am looking forward to that a lot.

Yeah.

And then I guess I would also love to know, I’m just kind of extending beyond, if people are wanting to do more, what advice would you give to artists or teachers who are, when this is new for them like they’re just beginning to explore book arts? Are there any tools or resources or even just a specific mindset you think are helpful when you get started? Where can people begin? What would you share with them?

Yeah, I think the biggest mindset space that you want to inhabit is really being, it can be a very informal way of putting together ideas. And as I mentioned at the beginning, part of, I think, the charm for me, and the reason why I keep making them 15 years later, is because it’s just a way for you to put your thoughts together. And if you start with that, then there’s no wrong way. And the best books, honestly, the best, beat books, even from super like Louise Bourgeois like really amazing, wonderful books that now you’re like, this is just wonderful, I really have that thread running through them. They are unique in material, unique in the way that they’re put together. So that’s what I would first advise is be open to your own making, because that is part of your voice.

Yeah.

That’s the first thing. In terms of materials, there are a few things that I recommend.

Okay.

Basic, basic like just gather your healing mat, anything to, like your hole puncher, anything to make holes with. If you have an awl, that would be great, but a basic hole puncher, metal ruler, a good pair of scissors, things like that, that are really going to make your life a lot easier and keep you from being frustrated.

Okay. Okay. I like that. And where do you find supplies? Obviously, I have a pair of scissors, I have a cutting board, things like that. But as you’re starting to get into more specific supplies for bookmaking, where are places that you like to go or where do you like to shop from?

So my number one, I think the best and most amazing bookstore, and they have an amazing online shop, is Talas. It’s in New York, but they have pretty much every single paper that you would want-

Oh.

… the most beautiful thread, bookmaking thread, just everything, everything. That is the mecca for all bookmaking supplies.

I hear the longing in your voice as you talk about it.

I love it. Every time I go to New York, I’m like, “I have to go.” I absolutely have to go there.

That’s funny.

Yes. But I also definitely go to Blake sometimes if I need just… Honestly, they have really good basic supplies. You’ll want to also have a bone folder, I forgot to mention that, and that’ll just-

Oh, yeah, yeah.

… to just really like you have nice folds, things like that. Obviously, great paper is always nice, but it’s always a nice plus. But yeah, so definitely Talas. And there are some really great websites also like resources. Printed Matter is also the mecca of just artist books.

Okay.

They’re amazing. They’re in New York, but they also have a really great website as well that are really full of resources and beautiful examples of what an artist book can be.

Very cool. So we’ll make sure we link to that so everybody can find that and hopefully find some other good resources for everyone if people are wanting to learn more, wanting to dive deeper.

Joana, thank you so much for joining me. Always great to talk to you. I love the insight into your process, but also just kind of bookmaking as a whole, I really appreciate you, sharing your expertise with us, and we will look forward to your Art Ed NOW presentation coming up soon. So thank you for all of that.

Thank you so much, Tim. So much fun.

As I mentioned, and as we discussed in the conversation, Juana will be presenting at the Art Ed NOW Conference on August 1st, which is now just over a month away. So if you’re interested in attending, you can find everything you need to know at www.theartofeducation.edu/now, which we’ll also link in the show notes. It is a great day of learning, great opportunity for you to connect with other art educators, have a great time, and learn some incredible new ideas for the coming school year.

Now, I loved Juana’s points about the ease of access when it comes to books and zines and how those forms of art making can be vehicles to drive student interest and help them tell their own stories. Those are always things that educators are looking for and those connections can be so valuable, as we always know. I also appreciate the insight into Joana’s own process and her own methods ’cause I think that allows people to dive in. If you want to learn more or you want to do more, just hearing her explain how she creates that work can be really, really valuable. And if you do want to learn more, like we said, come check out the Art Ed NOW Conference or look into the studio book arts course in the fall, or maybe just get some materials and just start exploring and start creating.

Art Ed Radio is produced by The Art of Education, with audio engineering from Michael Crocker. Please be sure to subscribe so we can join you again. And if you love the show, please jump over to Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen and give us a five-star rating, maybe even leave us a review. We will be back next Tuesday with the July Mailbag episode with Amanda. Send us your questions, podcast@theartofeducation.edu, and we will talk to you then.