The January Mailbag: Distracted Students, Resolutions, and Interview Season (Ep. 403)

Welcome to Art Ed Radio, the podcast for art teachers. This show is produced by the Art of Education University and I’m your host, Tim Bogatz.

All right, welcome to the podcast, friends. Welcome to 2024. It is the new year, and as promised, even though we’re a week late, it is the January Mailbag. Amanda Heyn is here, waiting to chat with me, waiting to answer our questions. Amanda, how are you?

I’m really good. I’m wearing my emotional support sweatsuit because our break was a little rocky, but I feel great and I am happy to be here.

Okay, good. I’m glad to hear that. Tell me about your break. Well, I don’t know how much you want to dive into it being rocky, but how was the break for you?

Yeah, it was a break, so in that sense, it was good. We got sick a lot like a lot of people. I feel like, every other meeting, half the people are like, “Oh, I was so relaxed,” and half the people are like, “Oh, I had bronchitis.” So we fell into the latter category, but I did read a lot of books. I discovered Project Runway is on Netflix, a season I haven’t seen.

Excellent. Excellent.

And that was really exciting. And then I found the rest of them are available on Peacock, so that’s where we’re going next. Yeah, we also got a 3D printer.

Oh, nice.

I thought it would be fun, but I love it. I love it. I didn’t really realize the kids can just print their own toys …

Right.

… and then you can just print like anything you want. Okay, people can’t see this, but you can see it, Tim. Look at this. They’re tiny milk crates.

Oh my gosh. Okay, everybody, these are 3D-printed milk crates. Everybody knows what a milk crate looks like, I hope, but these are literally an inch and a half tall. They are the most adorable things I’ve ever-

I’ll put it on Instagram the day this goes up. I’ll put a picture up. So go look.

I think that’s a great idea. Okay, I also need to ask because I feel like this is something you would be shopping for. Those milk crates were black, but do they have fancy filaments?

Oh my God.

I’m just thinking rainbow order filament or some color scheme that you would love.

I’m so glad you asked.

Judging by the look on your face, you’ve already done the shopping.

Okay. Well, here’s the thing. I was a very responsible person, and to start, we got shiny black and matte white. The matte white is great because you can paint it. It takes acrylic paint.

Like with acrylics? Okay.

Yup, they’re just plastic.

Nice, nice.

But then I did some more digging and there’s ombre filament, glitter filament, elastic filament, glow-in-the-dark filament. So these will be happening. I haven’t pulled the trigger yet because I don’t know how much I want to spend and how many rolls we really need. Glow in the dark is happening for sure and then probably glitter is my next choice. So yes.

Oh my God. So I love how you’re so excited about this, that I’m very curious about it and then everybody who’s had a 3D printer since 2017, they’re like, “Duh? Duh? Can’t believe you guys don’t know this already.”

But I would highly recommend. It’s been very fun.

They do, yeah.

How’s your break?

My break was good. I fell into the it-was-very-relaxing category. We had a bunch of holiday celebrations, which I’m very lucky to be able to do, but then once we got done with all of those, it was just like nine days off of doing nothing, which I never get. And so I read so many books and watched so many TV shows and played so many boardgames with my kids and it was very refreshing. I really do-

Do you have any recommendations? Do you have a book or a show or a game you think anyone should play? Not anyone, everyone.

Okay, so this is very interesting. Well, I don’t know if you’re a boardgame nerd. This is interesting.

Interesting, the 12% of the audience.

You know what? The person who does not have a 3D printer and also loves boardgames is way into this conversation right now. There’s three people in the audience who are like, “This is just for me. I love it.” But my daughter got this boardgame called Alice is Missing. We actually spotted it. You and I did when we were in New York. I don’t know if you remember, we went to that …

I do remember that.

… game shop that I dragged you into and found it there. It was great, but it’s this silent boardgame and it’s like a true-crime, missing-persons fictional story. And you play through this entire story via text. It’s entirely silent, but it’s got its own soundtrack and it’s got all these cues, all these cards for what happens. It’s different every time you play it, but you always play it via text with a group of people. And it was just something super interesting. We had a lot of fun with it and just a different way to do some boardgames and my daughter played it with her friends as well and they loved it. So it was just something that was intriguing just from a curiosity standpoint, something I haven’t done before, so I really liked it. It was called Alice is Missing. So it’s a fun one.

Okay, but enough about boardgames, I don’t need to ramble forever about them, but anyway, the game was cool, I enjoyed it, I want to ask you, now that kids are back at school, you’re getting back into normal work life. Is all that going okay for you? Anything new and exciting happening in that front?

That’s a good question. First of all, that game sounds cool. Second of all, I feel like I need to tell everybody that you dragged me into the game store only after I dragged you into the gems and minerals store.

Fair. Fair. We’re both very on brand on that …

Right.

… walkthrough.

Yes. Okay, yeah, my kids are back at school. I don’t know if I’ve talked about this on the podcast before, but something funny happened in that I signed my kids back up for Origami Club, so-

I forgot they have Origami Club.

They are obsessed with origami and much better than I am, but I don’t know. I never really looked at the price of Origami Club before, so this is an extra add-on, afterschool care sort of thing. And it was so many dollars. I don’t know. It used to be just my older son and now my younger son can join and so it’s like both of them.

So origami is twice as expensive now.

Yeah, and it was like hundreds of dollars for the next three months. And I looked at my husband and I was like, “This is their passion, right? They don’t really do a lot of sports or take a lot of other lessons or do a lot of camps,” and I was like, “Fine, whatever.” And then the kicker every time is on the form. It says all materials included. I’m just like, “Thank you? How much can the materials cost …”

Right.

“… out of those hundreds of dollars?” I’d rather they just leave it off.

Is materials even plural at that point?

They do-

There’s literally one thing that we’re using.

Yeah, they come home with multiple folded items.

Fair.

Yeah, but in all honesty, it’s the best part of their entire week. The teacher is incredible. They love it. They’re so good. And I can’t really complain, but I do think that is funny.

That is really true. Okay. You ready to dive into the mailbag?

Amanda:

I am.

Tim:

Okay. We are going to start-

Sorry. I think we need the sound.

Oh my gosh, I almost forgot about the sound.

Can I please intro the sound?

I appreciate you keeping us on track. Amanda, would you like to introduce it?

Yeah. And now it’s time to open the mailbag.

Okay, okay, now that we have officially opened the mailbag, we’re going to start with an email. This comes from Amber. It’s a long one and I think our answer is probably going to be long. Just think, but I’m going to go ahead and read this here. It says, “I am in my 17th year of teaching high school art. In the fine arts department, we have seen a shift of students not being able to sustain focus and remain engaged. When I talk with the student about why they received fewer engagement points, they don’t understand. They view themselves as trying and giving effort, but over a two-week period, they only work on a project for the last three days before it was due. Class time is filled with them trying to multitask between changing what they’re listening to, scrolling social media, extended table conversations, etcetera.

How would you identify and explain to students what being engaged in the art-making process looks like? Also, what are your realistic expectations for students of this age during a single class period where students are to be independently working? I’m having difficulty getting students to engage in art making and to remain focused. Ultimately, this growing issue leads to disruption to the rest of class or small groups of students.” And then finally, she says, “My school is one-to-one with iPads, where each student brings their own iPad to school, which does open a can of worms for access to games, social media, even with their phones out of the picture. I do break up class periods with demonstrations, art talks and staggering the projects we’re working on. Any advice or words of wisdom you have are greatly appreciated.” Again, that is from Amber in Missouri.

Cool.

Now-

We ask for tricky questions.

Right, and this is one of them. So I feel like-

I like it though. It’s good.

Yeah, yeah, it is a very good question. And like you said, I was intrigued by this one, so I asked a lot of my secondary art teacher friends just about their thoughts, and suffice to say, like you said, it’s a tricky one. I think we could probably do an entire episode on this question alone, but we can try and streamline here. And I will just start by saying, Amber, that we hear you and we feel you. This engagement question seems to be a struggle everywhere right now. So Amanda, in hearing this, first reactions or first thoughts?

Yeah. Well, there’s a few. First of all, I think you need to figure out what is most important to you when you’re grading. So I know that Amber mentioned engagement points and there are a couple of different schools of thoughts on that, right? Some teachers really like to reward that in their grading and some people like to just look at the work itself and just do standards-based grading. And so I think you have to figure out, is it important to you that the kids are building those daily habits or is their finished product more important to you, right? Some kids might be thinking for three days and then whip out something amazing and should they get a different grade than a kiddo who is maybe working every day, but doesn’t really produce anything of merit. So I think that’s one piece of the discussion.

I think another thing is just reassessing your expectations and are you trying to apply pre-pandemic expectations now that things have gone “a little bit back to normal”? I think some teachers are feeling like, “Well, yeah, the kid should be able to do this now. There’s no distance learning and there’s this or that.” But that experience has fundamentally changed all of us. And I think we were talking with Janet Taylor about this and she was saying, “I’m just finding myself having to put a lot more fun back into my routine and a lot more, not necessarily lower the expectations, but change the expectations and provide a lot more scaffolding and build up those skills that have been missing.” So I guess those are my initial thoughts. Where are you at?

Well, I want to comment on about four things that you said, so I probably will forget three of them, but I think that Amber’s on the right track here. She had that phrase about expectations for students of this age and I think it really does matter what experiences kids have been through. School is very different for them now, but I think what it comes back to, like you said, is deciding what your priorities are and then you have to teach that. Like you said, you have to give kids that support. So if you are grading engagement, I think kids need to know your expectations. So you can’t just say, “Okay, I want you to spend some time brainstorming and then do a couple sketches and then come to me with some composition ideas.” That’s not enough for them. You really need to nail down exactly what that looks like.

If you want them to be brainstorming, what does that look like? Are you making lists? Are you creating a mind map? How many ideas do you need them to come with? Are they talking to you about them? Are they talking to peers about them? You really have to teach that part of the process. And then when you’re going into sketching, what does that look like? Are they doing it on random paper? Do they have a visual journal? How many sketches do they need? How developed do they need to be? Where do they go after that? How are they getting feedback? Just all of those things need to be laid out for them.

And so I think when … She mentions kids are only working for a few days and then they think that they’ve been working the entire time and I’ll say that’s just teenagers for you. But also at the same time, you really need to say, “Today is a work day for you,” or, “I’m expecting you to do this, this and this,” or, “I’m looking for you to do these things,” and just make sure that you’re checking in with kids and make sure that they know, like you said, what your expectations are, because I think that really helps. I’d also love to chat a little bit about the distractions, whether that is conversations or phones or iPads or other technology. What advice would you give in that situation?

Yeah, I think that’s really tricky, right? Because if you are at a one-to-one school, then by default they have a device and it’s school provided, right? What are you supposed to do about that? But I think here again, they need your support in learning how to focus and what that probably will look like is not letting them get any devices out for at least a specific period of time, whether that’s the first five minutes or 10 minutes. And I know they can be excellent tools for that brainstorming, for that ideation, for research, etcetera, but I would say then there’s a limited time maybe. The first 10 minutes, you can do research or whatever. Maybe you’re printing things out that you find.

Now I know that uses resources and maybe isn’t a great solution, but if you have kids who cannot stay off their device, you have to help them stay off their device and set a boundary. And the boundary is taking away the device.

Right, right.

It’s just the same, I’m thinking about parenting or myself. If I have my phone in my bedroom at night, I’m going to bed later and it’s because these devices are made to make you use them as much as possible. And so I think it’s unfair to … And I didn’t get this from her, but I think it’s unfair to expect teenagers to voluntarily put away something that’s so exciting or just even have the wherewithal or the skillset, quite honestly, to make that decision and follow through on it. And so I would think really hard about creating some sort of digital contract or whatever you want to call it of, again, very clear expectations, “When are devices allowed and when are they not allowed?” and explaining why to the kids I think is really important.

Yeah, I was just going to say that. I think you need to be very clear about that. And I would guess I would just put the caveat, I know this advice is a lot tougher if you don’t have administrative support with this. I know that a lot of teachers are fighting that battle without the backup from their administrators, which makes it very difficult. But if you don’t want kids to have their devices out, if you want them focused on the art making, you need to be willing to fight that battle if they are a distraction. So like you just said, give kids a reason why. If they’re in high school, they can understand that.

I’d say, “You don’t need your iPad right now because I really want you to focus on these three things,” or, “We’re going to put those away, so we can really get our hands dirty and do this right now,” and just give them a reason why and that can help. And that’s not a cure all. Like you said, there are still kids who are literally addicted to these things, and even if they’re not to that level, a lot of times, they just don’t have the impulse control. My wife teaches middle school and she has this kid who just cannot help himself and just always getting his iPad out even after he put away and then fights her every time on it. And just right before break, they’re trying to study for an exam and he had his iPad out and he’s like, “Oh, I’m just checking the Weather app.” She’s like …

“Why?”

“Why? Why do you need to check the Weather app right now? You’re not getting out of school for six hours.”

That’s amazing.

“What exactly are you going to do with that?” But that’s just to illustrate kids don’t even realize what they’re doing. They just dive into that without thinking. And so like you said, just you need to tell them, “This is why I don’t want these out. This is why it’s a distraction. Instead I need to be doing these things,” and just put thought into what the alternatives are besides doing that device. And if it is something that you need to fight, what are the consequences? Think about what they can be in your classroom. Think about what they can be at the building level. And then I guess the last thing I would love to talk about, we could talk about this all day, but I think the engagement thing, what does it look like being engaged in the art-making process? That was one of the things that Amber asked about. So your thoughts there?

Well, I think that’s tricky because I think it can look a myriad of different ways depending on the kid and the day and the whatever. But sometimes being engaged is researching ideas. Sometimes being engaged is just thinking …

Right.

… your own head.

Right.

Right? One of my own personal children, sometimes he’s just staring off into space, and then 20 minutes later, the most profound thing comes out of his head or he’s like, “Oh, I was constructing a Lego thing in my mind and now I know exactly how to build it.” And I’m just like, “My brain doesn’t work that way and so that’s not something that I often think about, is that being productive can look like doing absolutely nothing.” Now, a lot of kids, when they’re-

I was going to say, let’s not advertise that to our students necessarily. We don’t want to put that out there that just like, “Well, creativity sometimes looks like doing nothing,” because that’s all you’re going to get the rest of the semester.

Totally, but I think it’s worthwhile to note that it can look different for different kids. Are they talking with a classmate about art? That’s very different than talking with a classmate about what they did this weekend. And so I would think about, if you’re going to grade on engagement or productivity or whatever, what does that mean, what does that look like, what are the acceptable things and maybe just widening or giving a little bit of grace there may be beneficial.

Yeah, and I would just say, and I’m going back to the answer I gave before about telling kids exactly what that looks like. Maybe that goes on your rubric like, “Engagement looks like X number of sketches and decent engagement in brainstorming looks like this or proficient brainstorming looks like this,” and really lay it out for the kids where, “These are the things that I’m expecting you to be doing. These are the parts of the process I want to focus on,” and teach them, “This is what that looks like. This is what I’m expecting you to do.” And so I think just spend some time reflecting on what’s really important. If we can tie all this into one little bow, reflect on what’s most important, figure out how you’re going to teach that to your kids and figure out how you’re going to follow through with both those expectations and what you’re looking for them to do as part of the project.

Yeah, 100%.

Okay, moving on. Our next question is a little easier. This comes from Nick in Michigan and Nick says, “I would love to hear your New Year’s resolutions, either professional ones or personal ones.” I feel like we should have started with this question, but …

Yeah, this is fun.

… that’s okay. We’ll bring it down from the difficult engagement question to the, “What are you doing for your New Year’s resolution?” So Amanda, you’re first.

Yeah. Well, I have mixed feelings about the term resolutions. I try not to go too wild or be too unrealistic, but I like to think about, “Oh, is there a sustainable change I can make?” Like last year, I wanted to read 20 books and I did and that made me read more, to just keep that in mind. So yeah, I did though find a social media post that said, “You should make a fun resolution.” So I also have a fun resolution, which is I want to learn how to make hot fudge and I want to throw a party that requires dry ice. And my family and I are going to visit 15 of the libraries in the South Central Wisconsin Library System because we love going to our local library and there are just so many libraries around. So-

This is … Oh, I love all of those goals.

Yeah, I’m also going to try to incorporate more movement into my day. And I was going to say, “Go to bed early,” but I know I’ve already broken it. It shouldn’t be a resolution because my body just really likes to stay up late. So-

Yeah, yeah, that’s fair. I’m also not a fan of resolution. I’m not a big fan of trying to make huge changes all at once like, “Oh, new year, new me.” No, no, that doesn’t work for me. And also just the whole arbitrary date thing, if you want to start doing something, just start doing it. Why are we waiting until January 1st? Not to be too old and curmudgeonly, but just it doesn’t work for me.

Not to be old and curmudgeonly, but we hate resolutions.

But I’m going to be old and curmudgeonly. It doesn’t work for me and I don’t like the negative thoughts that come with not meeting goals and not sticking with your resolutions, which let’s be honest, most people don’t stick with those resolutions. So I want to ask you though, because I was thinking about this. Nick, you’re making me reflect and I appreciate that, so thank you for the question. And so I was thinking about what I may want to do this year and I hate to say it, but smart goals work really well and I hate bringing that up in a podcast for teachers because I know we’re all so sick of specific measurable, achievable, relevant time base …

Right.

… but it does actually work really well. So Amanda, I’m just thinking about your hot fudge one. When are you going to learn to make it a hot fudge?

Okay, I’m already having-

By which month? Which month are we going to do?

Okay. I love that you brought this up because I guess maybe … Yeah, Nick, this is a great question, because while I don’t really love the term resolution, I love a list of tasks.

Okay, fair.

Give me a checklist and I will crush it. And so I have written down all of these goals including, “Move more and read 20 books,” and whatever and, “Make hot fudge.” I made a drawing checklist …

All right.

… and then every time I complete a task, I’m going to watercolor the little picture I drew.

Oh, I love it.

And so I’ve already thought about this. I already have the ingredients for hot fudge. I feel like hot fudge is a winter activity and I would like to do it by the end of February. And I would like to make one jar.

Very nice. See, that’s perfect. A very actionable goal at this point, so it’s good. And Nick asked about personal and professional goals. I would say, personally I want to do more running. I love running.

How much running and by when?

Okay, so I have a specific number of miles in mind. I don’t particularly want to share that, but …

Okay, that’s fair.

… I do have a number in my head that I will be going for. And then professionally, I would honestly just love to get a new podcast series out. We’ve talked about that a little bit. That’s hopefully coming in February also. So you do hot fudge, I’ll do a new podcast series and we’ll be good to go. And then I also need to renew my teaching license, which again has very specific steps. It’s got to be done by August. Already working on the grad courses, I need to do that. So we’re getting there, but yeah, professionally new series and renewing the teaching license and-

Yeah, I do also have professional goals. Yeah, we’re going to be bringing art teachers together in some new and exciting ways. Yeah, this is tricky. I can’t really tell you any of my professional goals, but I’ll say they’re very exciting and will probably impact you.

Perfect, perfect. All right, thank you. Those are good questions, Nick. We appreciate it. Okay, next question, it says, “I’m new to elementary art teaching and I’m having a few difficulties with the transition. Some district colleagues suggested that I use more songs and more call and responses, but I don’t know where to start with those. What are some of your favorites for elementary students?” That is from Chris in Florida.

Thanks, Chris. Okay, this is such a good question. So first I’ll say, classroom management is something I love personally and I consider myself pretty good at. And I will tell you, I taught elementary school for five years and I did not sing one single time.

Same. Same.

It’s just not me. This is a fun fact about Tim and I. We have never done karaoke, either of us, in our entire lives and probably never will. It’s not for me. So you as well, Tim, did you sing when you taught elementary?

No. Oh God, no, no, never done karaoke. It is my life goal to get to my deathbed without ever having done karaoke. My friends are great. I love watching it, but never going to do it myself. But I would just say, you have to do what’s right for you when we come back to classroom management. For me, it was literally anything else, but singing. There are a million ways to do your routines and procedures and just being consistent with it is the key.

Okay, right. So if you’re not into singing, you don’t have to do it, but maybe you are into singing. We’re just assuming you’re not, but you could love singing. And like Tim said, I think whatever you choose, it just needs to be consistent. You need a consistent, reliable way to get student’s attention because that’s going to serve you well no matter what you’re doing in the art room. So I like to keep it simple with a countdown. I would just say, “Hey, class, I need your attention.” And then I would hold up my hand and I would put down one finger and I’d say, “In five, four, three, two, one,” obviously much slower. I really like that approach because it’s the same every single time. The kids don’t have to remember what to do or how to respond. And I know a lot of teachers use call-in responses very successfully in their classroom.

Yeah, they’re fun. They’re cool.

They’re fun, yup, but it wasn’t for me. I also like that this clearly states what I need the kids to do. I need them to pay attention and it gives them a little bit of time to finish up that last line they’re drawing or wrap up a conversation with a table partner or whatever. I think the other trick here is that you have to wait until all the kids are listening. And I don’t mean most of the kids and I don’t mean all of the kids, but one kid. You literally must wait until every single kid is listening. And it’s going to be annoying at first because-

It is, but I’ll just say I did that at the elementary level, I also did it at the secondary level. Because if you’re letting one little side conversation go, then next week, it’s a couple of side conversations. And then a month and a half from now, nobody listens to you at all and it’s a hot mess. And for whatever reason, that was really my one area where I really had to enforce that, “Just no side conversations while I’m talking.” And so yeah, like you said, it’s just a matter of making sure that everyone is listening.

100%. The other thing I think you can think about is transition time. So yes, call-in responses are great for getting attention or doling out directions or whatever, but transitions are another place in the class to really focus your time and energy because this is where a lot of kids can get off task, they can get really hairy. And so I think a lot of that comes from kids feeling surprised or not being able to remember the expectations. So what I love to do is when the kids first enter the room, just run through a quick list of what the class will look, so there are no surprises about, “You are going to have to stop in the middle of your work time to come watch the second part of this demonstration,” or, “We are going to be cleaning up 10 minutes early to play a review game or whatever.”

And then what I like to do is give a little bit of a warning before the transition. So I might actually do my five, four, three, two, one countdown before the kids actually have to do anything to remind them they’re going to have to do something, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And then I also really love a visual timer, especially at the elementary level, but really for any level. It’s great for when kids are working or in a state of flow or whatever. There’s a timer called the time timer, which actually is a big red pie piece that gets smaller and smaller instead of counting down numerically or whatever. And that’s really great because the kids can self-monitor even if they have no idea how to tell time or read numbers. So it’s a really valuable tool for the classroom.

Yeah, that is a lot of good advice. And we always love to link this stuff too, for people who want to dive in a little bit more, you always have resource ideas. Anything from us, anything from AOEU come to mind with this?

Yes. So there are two YouTube videos that I would direct you to. One is from our Run the Art Room series, which honestly just watch the whole thing. It’s all about classroom management.

Yes, I’ve watched all of it.

But there’s a specific video called Call-In Response and Attention Getters, which is I think episode four, but we’ll link it for you. And then there’s a really, really old one on there called Art Room Attention Getters. Obviously, we’re very creative in our naming conventions here, but that also has half a dozen to a dozen ideas for you if you are looking for those call-in responses. And then if you have a pro learning membership with AOEU, I would suggest a couple of different pro packs, one, Behavior as Communication, which is excellent about just understanding the root of kid’s behavior in the art room and what to do about it and then Developing Essential Elementary Procedures is really, really good and has a lot of great support for management and setting kids up for success.

Yeah, nice. Very good. Okay, so we will link to all of those. Thank you for the suggestions, Amanda. I think we have one last question and I have not let you read one yet, so would you like to read the final question for today?

I would love to. This one comes from Instagram from @castandpressed. Thank you for the question. It says, and I think this is good because this time is coming closer or sooner, I guess, than we think, which is, “How do interviews differ from long-term sub-positions to full-time positions? And do questions differ when interviewing for different grade levels and how do they differ?” So some good questions about the interview season, which is a faster approaching.

Yeah, it very much is. And I got to say, when I saw this first question come through, I said, “I don’t know.” So I reached out to a couple of admin friends who do interviews just talking about the long-term sub-positions, full-time positions, what the difference might be. And what I got from them was that, if it’s a long-term sub-position, it probably depends on whether they would look to hire you permanently after that long-term position has ended. So if it’s somebody who is going on maternity leave and will just be gone for eight weeks or something, they probably just want to make sure you can do the job, make sure you can handle yourself in front of kids, have some basic subject knowledge and just, I hate to say, just be a warm body because more than that. But that’s really all they’re looking for, is that you’re qualified, you know what you’re doing.

If it’s something different where you may be hired long-term afterward, like say a teacher quit or is on medical leave and maybe isn’t coming back, the interview is probably going to be more specific to the position. And that’s where you’re going to get more questions about specific subject material, questions about art, questions about, “What would you do in that position if it were yours?” And then I guess I would say for full-time positions, I hesitate to answer just because it can vary so widely. I don’t want to paint anything with too broad of a brush, but it just depends on who you’re going to interview with. If it’s an admin and maybe a district leader and somebody from the HR department, that’s going to look way different than if you have a couple of representatives from the art department and another teacher leader and an assistant principal. They’re going to be very different.

So if you can see who you’re interviewing with, if you can find that out and then you may have a clue as to whether it’s going to be more of a general discussion or whether it’s going to be really diving deep on onto art things and how you would run an art room. And I guess my other piece of advice would be just, whether it’s high school or elementary school or middle school, wherever you’re going to be, just do your research and make sure you know about the school, know about the district, and as much as you can, find out about the position before you go in for the interview and just think about, reflect and try to look forward. Have a clear vision of what you would want to do if you were hired in the position, how you can help the program be successful, and just how you might fit in with that school’s culture. So Amanda, your thoughts on any of that?

Yeah. Well, I love hiring. Interviewing is one of my favorite things to do. I think all of that is really good advice. I would say, if it’s a sub-position, you’re probably not going through multiple rounds of interviews. If it’s a long-term position, you may meet with the interview panel at the school and then you may go to the district office and meet with a director of curriculum or superintendent or HR or something. So be prepared for that. My most harrowing interview experience was that I walked into a room and there were seven people there including the parents.

Oh my, okay. I’m not saying oh my as though that’s bad. I think that’s a good thing actually, but also as a baby teacher who has …

Oh, I was a baby-

… [inaudible 00:38:18] interviews, that is scary.

Yeah, I was a 22-year-old baby, my first interview. I crushed it. I got the job because I was super prepared. So I think what Tim said about doing your research is really key. So I’m always impressed when a candidate does exactly that. They come in and talk about the background knowledge. They know the district initiatives or things that are going on in the school and can talk really intelligibly about how they would fit in with those things. I know we don’t want to say, “Definitely be prepared to answer that,” but I would say there’s four areas that I would focus on, really having polished answered for, answers for, excuse me, one is be prepared to talk about your teaching philosophy and pedagogy, how do you approach teaching, how do you approach classroom management, how do you differentiate for students and then your approach to assessment.

If you’re looking for support with interviewing, we have an excellent article called The Art Teacher’s Ultimate Guide to Getting Hired, which we have as a download.

Oh, yeah. That’s a good one.

It’s a good one. It has a download with 25 common art teacher interview questions. It also has notes about how to think about answering those questions and it has room to write. So if you go through that exercise and complete that set of three pages or whatever, you’re going to be in pretty good shape. If you want to dive even more deeply, you can check out the pro pack, Getting Hired as an Art Educator. I made that one. I wrote the article, so I think it’s good, but I think it’s objectively good. So if you want someone to walk you through all the different things you have to think about when interviewing, that pro pack is really excellent as well.

Yes, and just so Amanda’s not patting herself on the back too much, I will also say that that is a good PRO pack.

Oh, thank you.

There’s a lot of good information in there. So okay, Amanda, we need to wrap it up there but I just realized that next time we do a mailbag, it will be post-NOW Conference. We have the NOW Conference less than a month away, which is, a, very exciting, and b, very scary for the people who have to run it because there’s a lot going into it. But I don’t know, I’m excited. I don’t know, things are coming together quite nicely. Presenters are turning in some incredible stuff. The presentations are going to be great. I’m so excited about the schedule, everything that’s coming together. Can we take 30 seconds before we go? What are you excited about with the NOW Conference?

Yeah, okay, well, I’m obviously very excited about Devon Rodriguez, because as our featured presenter, he is going to be excellent. I just watched the final video all edited together and it literally made me teary-eyed. If you don’t know Devon by now, he is the guy who draws people on the subway, hands them their picture. He’s an incredible artist, but more than that, he’s an incredible human being and he talks a lot about his art teacher influence and how his art teachers really helped shape the artist he is. And it’s just really moving and wonderful and he’s funny. It’s just great. So if that doesn’t sway, you can go to our website. Maybe we can put one more note in the show or in the show links, is that what they’re called?

Show notes.

Show notes.

You’re close. You’re close.

It’s been a long episode. In the show notes, we can link you and you can see the entire schedule for the main event. There are so many amazing presenters and presentations, something for everybody. So I’m just really excited to also just get in the chat during the conference and just when we open it up and hundreds and hundreds and sometimes thousands of teachers are there together, it’s my favorite moment of the year. So what about you?

Oh, yeah, it’s incredible. All of the above. And also, you and I have been working a lot on the conference kickoff and the games that we’re going to be playing the Friday night before the conference, which is always a blast. Just to let you all know, I’m still fighting the costuming part of things.

I will prevail.

But we have some great games planned. We have some amazing giveaways and I just have so much fun with that. I’m really, really looking forward to doing that again.

Yeah, we’re going to give away $500 to four art teachers. If you weren’t at the last conference, I have a money gun that I’m bringing back.

I believe it’s named The Rainmaker. Is that correct?

The Rainmaker. It is golden chrome and it shoots out money and you can win it. So lots of you can sign up.

Art-making games, money flying through the air and then a whole day of professional learning. What more do you really need? What more could your professional life really need?

Really nothing. It’s the fall package. Right. And you can hang out with us and we would love to chat with you. So you can go to theartofeducation.edu/now and we’ll also link the show notes …

Show notes.

… is what they’re called.

Very good. That was way more than 30 seconds, but we are obviously both very excited for it. So okay, we are way over time now. We’re going to wrap it up. Amanda, thank you. It’s been a blast.

Thank you.

That was a really enjoyable conversation. A couple simple questions dealing with New Year’s resolutions and a really deep discussion about what is engagement and what should it look like in the classroom and whether we need to grade it and how we grade it. So a lot there for everybody. I hope you enjoyed the discussion. I would personally love to hear even more perspectives on the topic of engagement. By the way, it’s a really wide-ranging conversation. Like I said when we first answered that, we could do an entire episode on it, but I would love to hear from more teachers about whether you’re having similar difficulties, whether you’re experiencing the same things or just what it looks like to engage in the making process in your art room. I think that’s a good discussion that we can have with our students. But for now, we will wrap it up.

Thank you to Amanda for answering these questions and recording with me. Thank you to everyone who wrote in with questions. Okay, if you have a question for the mailbag episode, you can email podcasts@theartofeducation.edu. You can email me, timothy bogatz@theartofeducation.edu or you can even leave a voice recording for us at (515) 209-2595. Then lastly, before we go, you can obviously check out the NOW Conference on the AOEU website, like Amanda and I just talked about, and we’ll have a bunch of links in the show notes for everything that we mentioned today. So if you want to dive deeper on any of that, please check out the show notes and that will get you everything you need.

Art Ed Radio is produced by the Art of Education University with audio engineering from Michael Crocker. Thank you for listening and we will talk to you next week.