2024 Summer NOW Conference Preview (Ep. 426)

With the 2024 Summer NOW Conference happening THIS WEEK, Jen Leban joins Tim to talk about the highlights of the upcoming event.  This includes their excitement about everything coming the next 3 days, the wonderful keynote presentation from Reggie Laurent, and how teachers can make the most of their professional learning on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.

Join us at the NOW Conference July 31st, August 1st, and August 2nd, where we will share three days of PD that will have you inspired and excited for the upcoming school year! Full Episode Transcript Below.

Resources and Links

• Listen to the podcast interview with artist Reggie Laurent
• Find all you need to know about the NOW Conference
• Check out Tim and Amanda’s Olympic Training Reel

 

Transcript

Tim:

Welcome to Art Ed Radio, the podcast for art teachers. This show is produced by the Art of Education University, and I’m your host, Tim Bogatz.

It is conference week. I’ve been talking about it on the podcast here for a while, you heard from our keynote speaker Reggie Laurent last week. But this is the week! We have the kickoff tomorrow, Wednesday, the main event on Thursday, and then the After Pass on Friday. 

As always, we want to do a conference preview episode to talk about some of the exciting things we have happening over the next few days, and if you are not registered yet, You can find everything you need at theartofeducation.edu/now. We’ll link to that in the show notes as well.

For today’s episode, I invited Jen Leban. She is the newest member of the AOEU Community Team, and she will be part of our live art teacher roundtable at the main event on Thursday. I’m looking forward to talking to her and seeing what she’s excited about for the NOW Conference. Just a quick warning, she and I are very good at going off on unrelated tangents, so we’ll see what happens today. But let me bring her on, and we will discuss all things NOW as well as whatever else may come up.

Jen Leban is joining me now. Jen, how are you?

Jen:
I am doing well in summertime, relaxing and trying to enjoy the weather.

Tim:

That’s good, that’s fair. How has the summer been for you?

Jen:
Good in terms that it’s summer, but nasty in terms of the cicadas, so I spent the first half of my summer staying inside.

Tim:

Oh, right, because you’re You’re in Chicago, right? And I’ve heard the cicadas are insane this year.

Jen:

Yes, I happen to live near the town of Brookfield to the Brookfield Zoo. if If people, any locals out there, um there are a lot of old trees. So therefore we are blessed with lots and lots of cicadas.

I would equate it to if you saw any of the videos like on Instagram or TikTok where it just looks like the tree bark is moving. That is where I live. So I just didn’t leave the house for at least a solid month.

I’m not an outdoor girl anyway, so we should probably clarify that. But this just gave me a very good excuse to just stay I’m definitely afraid of them. I know they can’t hurt you. I know that they’re, you know, good for bugs or whatever purpose they serve. But nope. So thank you.

Tim:

Yeah, well, I mean, but still the fact remains that they’re gross.

Jen:
Yes, also, I don’t like gross bugs. Fun. Fun fact, I also hate butterflies just like Amanda.

Tim:
Oh, my gosh. All right. All right. So here I love playing this. I feel like Amanda talks about that every time she’s on the podcast with me, how much she hates butterflies . . .

Jen:
I was so excited to hear that because I had found a kindred spirit because I had not found anyone with that phobia before. Everybody just makes me feel like I’m weird, like, oh, they’re beautiful. And love I’m like, no, so they’re threatening and they fly at me. And I don’t like them. No, they want to kill me.

Tim:
I don’t know that threatening is the word I would use for butterflies, but that’s fine.

Jen:
Yeah, well, you should get a magnifying glass. They’re threatening those faces. They’re out to get me.

Tim:
OK, so we are chatting today about the now conference, not to change the subject too quickly from killer butterflies, but we do want to talk about the now conference in this episode, which is a a good preview for the now conference.

Jen:
Gotcha.

Tim:
You’re going to be joining us for our teacher roundtable, which I’m very excited about. I’m looking forward to that. But I guess the question for you is, besides that roundtable, what else are you excited about with the new conference this week?

Jen:

Yeah, well, um, it’s not my first NOW conference because I’ve done several. Wow, I should go count.

Tim:
Oh, you’ve presented so many times.

Jen:
So many times I can’t keep count. um So um it’s exciting to yet again get to ah attend the now conference. um What I love about it is really just the the getting to connect with other art teachers just because I vividly, even though like in my most recent role, I wasn’t teaching art. Like you never forget that sense of like isolation or like being an island, you know, and anytime you can be surrounded by other art teachers, be it like in person at a conference or in the virtual conference space, like it’s just so um like it fills your cup, you know, it reenergizes you. It’s a good summer before going back to the school year, and you get all the ideas, and like everything, it’s all activated.

Tim:
Yeah, absolutely. And I love that. As you said, just the community side of things, being able to connect, being able to bounce ideas off of other art teachers, or finding out what other people are doing. I love the chat where, you know, the presenter will have an idea, and then somebody in the chat runs with that idea, and then somebody else builds on that, and you just see all of these ideas coming through, and you’re like, I can’t write all these down fast enough.

Jen:
Yes.

Tim:
And there’s so many, so many good things going on.

Jen:
Yes. this ah This is why I love presenting at conferences, like just in general. like I know a lot of teachers get freaked out about it, and they’re like, well, I don’t know anything, or I have nothing new to share. like First of all, that’s just what they think, because that’s their experience. But yeah, because everybody has something wonderful to share.

Tim:
Yeah.

Jen:
And even like what seems ordinary to you is like extraordinary to somebody else. So first of all, if you haven’t done present at a conference, do it. It’s amazing. um But one of the things I love about presenting is that the participants often do have waste. It’s almost like improv. They’re like, yes, and and then they have like other ideas that they kind of build off of and they do.

And as a presenter, I love that. I never get up and pretend that I’m like the expert in the room. So I actually and invite that. Like so if you’ve ever.

If anybody ever came and saw me in person, a lot of times I’ll even say like, if you have, you know, a question or an idea or something you went about please join the conversation. I love that because it’s that kind of in the moment, unplanned, I don’t know, I guess moments of inspiration that are often like the best and like those take home moments and those those strategies or things that you are excited to go back into the classroom and act on.

It’s that stuff. It’s the stuff that you don’t know going into it that is often the greatest takeaway.

Tim:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I think you know just thinking about that excitement, it’s the perfect time of year where there’s obviously a little bit of dread, like, oh, I have to go back to school soon. But at the same time, like if you enjoy teaching, like you’re you’re excited deep down to get back to school. And so I think being able to to get all these ideas and get this inspiration and at the right time of year, like this is this is the perfect time to to get everybody together and to share all those ideas.

Jen:
Yes. Yeah, Target has their supplies out right now, which at first does give you does give you a bit of the like, like the anxiety starts to build. Do you maybe you guys have talked about this before, but like, have you seen where people call it the Sunday Scaries?

Tim:
Yes, yes.

Jen:
Listen, okay. like this is This concept is somewhat new to me. I feel like I just came across it like last year, the year before, whatever. And I was like, oh my gosh, someone has a term for the thing I feel every day. And I like felt the same.

Tim:
Right.

Jen:
And then to hear that it’s like normal, I was like, oh, which is another weird thing too? Should this be normal that we’re dreading our dread?

Tim:
That’s true, that’s true.

Jen:
It brings about all these other questions. but seeing all these supplies at school at first does give you that like sunday scariest anxiety but also like i’m drunk like a scary moth to a flame i’m drawn to these supplies because i’m like what’s new i’m like what are the new art supplies i get so jazzed and so excited about it but it’s so it’s weird i don’t know it’s like a terrible car accident you can’t look away you know you shouldn’t stay away

Tim:

Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, i I get excited about the school supplies, too. Like, it’s a little nerdy, I guess, but I’m like, oh, this is fun.

And my kids actually go back to school next week, which is wild to me.

Jen:
What?

Tim:
It’s so early for them. Yeah, we have teachers who are telling us we can’t attend the now conference because that’s my in-service day.

Jen:
Yes. Oh my gosh.

Tim:
Like they they’re back at school like end of July, which I’m very sorry. I didn’t really listen who’s going back that early But yeah, my kids start like August 9th and like it’s it’s so crazy So yeah, we’ve actually been in those Target aisles like doing our shopping already, which is way too early But at the same time still kind of exciting.

Jen:

Well, on the plus side, you get like first pick and you’re not fighting all the crowds, although if it’s your local school, is it crowded?

Tim:
It was a little crowded but not too bad yet. So we definitely don’t go like the day before school.

Jen:
OK. Do they have Halloween out, though?

Tim:
That’s a terrible idea. They did not at Target but at the grocery store like Halloween candy is getting stocked up like it’s still July friends I don’t know if we need to do this just yet, but you’re a Halloween fan, right?

Jen:
No, this is the best thing ever. The fact that Halloween has come out so early this year, I am living for this. And although Target doesn’t have it in person yet, they did. It must have been over the weekend or something. All of their stuff is available online. And there is stuff that is sold out already sold out online stuff.

Tim:
Oh, man. See, everybody’s catching up to you with ah the Halloween stuff.

Jen:
I know, although, Tim, I don’t know that we we talked about this before. Did I tell you that this year was the year I finally scored the 12 foot skeleton for my front yard come coming in August?

Tim:
Did you? Oh, man, I feel like we need to do another podcast when that comes in, or maybe closer to Halloween, so we can crowdsource some ideas for your twelve-foot skeleton.

Jen:
A spooky podcast. Yes, please. Oh, that would be amazing.

Tim:
Yeah, that sounds great.

Jen:
Art teachers have got to have the best ideas for the 12 foot skeleton, although Amanda told me about the person that glued mirrors to theirs to make it like a giant mirror disco ball skeleton.

Tim:
Yeah.

Jen:
And all I could think of was that it has to be setting stuff on fire when the sun hits it, right?

Tim:
Probably, oh, that sounds great.

Jen:
Like sounds fabulous, but functionally, doesn’t it destroy everything around it?

Tim:
Yeah, yeah, that’s trouble.

OK, I’m going to get us back on track for the NOW conference.

Jen:
Sorry. Sorry. Okay.

Tim:

No, we were just talking about all the things that that we’re excited about, just in in general, in life, I guess, but for the conference as well.

Jen:
Yes.

Tim:

But one thing I’m super excited about is the kickoff on Wednesday night.

Jen:
Excitement.

Tim:

Amanda and I always get together and play ridiculous games and give out a ton of prizes and a ton of money. And then we do some art making, which is a blast.

Jen:
Yep.

Tim:
I guess my question for you is, have you done the kickoff before? Have you joined us?

Jen:
I am embarrassed to say that I have not actually joined the kickoff before.

Tim:
No, no, don’t be embarrassed. It’s fine.

It’s like this hidden gem where like every year more and more people come and they’re like, this is great.

Why have I not done this before? And so now you get to be one of those people.

Jen:
And. Yes, and yesterday y’all released the preview video, the short on Instagram or Instagram.

Tim:
Yeah. Yes. We have the real or our training reel.

Jen:
Yes, the real on YouTube, YouTube and Instagram, the short came out the commercial and it is one of the best things I’ve seen.

Just got to say that it’s amazing.

Tim:
That’s funny. Yeah, we had a good time. So, for those of you who have not seen it on Instagram, we’ll we’ll link to YouTube so you can check it out. But it’s Amanda and I are in our matching athletic jackets, rainbow-colored, of course, because we’re art teachers just making ourselves look ridiculous training for the Olympics because we’re going with Olympic theme for this.

Jen:
Yes.

Tim:
It was a lot of fun. We really enjoyed it.

Jen:
It’s amazing.

Tim:
Like I said, we, we’ve trained a lot and so we’re, we’re ready for it now. Like we. have ah three Olympic themed games, which are going to be super fun. We’re looking forward to doing those. And then we have so many giveaways that we’re doing, which I think Amanda is most excited about. But I am too, which is cash and art-making prizes and all sorts of cool stuff for your classroom. So we’re looking forward to those. And then we have art making at the end, which will be really good, too. And I’m kind of stepping away from that, letting other people take over, ah, which should be quite a bit of fun. But have you have you seen what we’re doing for for the art making?

Jen:
I may have gotten a little preview of it, so I don’t I don’t know how much am I supposed to say, like.

Tim:
No, it’s good. Well, we’ll just say this. We have a really good sort of mini masterpieces inspired drawing session that Chris Hodge is going to do with Janet Taylor. And then we have a really good elementary session with Mandy Culver and Sarah Krajewski.

Jen:
I love that.

Tim:
People have been to the NOW Conference before. They know Sarah. She’s hosted a lot before, but I’m excited about the mini drawings personally.

Jen:
Yes.

Tim:
I think that’s going to be a lot of fun. Have you been following along with mini masterpieces? Are you doing those?

Jen:
Oh, I was so worried you were going to bring this up, so I started off. So yes and no. I started off going home like, yeah, and I’ve probably done all the way through number 15, but what day is today? It’s like 10 days after the fact.

I am such a slacker, like. I yeah it just I fell off the wayside and I wish I could like explain it but anytime something feels like it’s a like a half to do like I put that pressure on myself I don’t want it I fell behind I love it it’s a really super cool idea I did the first 15 days I kept falling like three or four days behind and then I would post like three or four in a row and I put this like pressure on myself

Tim:
Yeah. Yeah.

Jen:
But and then you make the mistake of looking at other people’s things on Instagram. And then I’m like, oh, mine is not as good as theirs.

Tim:
And they’re so good, yes.

Jen:
And so, yeah. So maybe what I need to do is sit down today and catch up and just make like dink, like just get it done. do You know what I mean? Like, because it is so much fun and I do love it.

Tim:
Yeah.

Jen:
And I love the idea of a daily prompt. And I think that it’s a great idea to take back to the classroom, like just a bell ring or an idea spark. So it’s like I have nothing against it. I think I just have my own issue.

Tim:
So here’s my suggestion.

Jen:
Have you ever encountered that? Yeah.

Tim:
Yeah, no, I know where you’re coming from with that, but my suggestion would be to just kind of let it go because we’re not perfect.

Jen:
OK.

Tim:
Like not everybody’s going to finish all these, but then just come to the kickoff and do the mini drawings with i with Janet and Chris and that’ll make up for it.
Jen
And a little bit of participation is better than no participation at all. So at least I did some.

Tim:
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

Jen:
I tried. Did you participate, Tim?

Tim:
No, I have not really done many masterpieces two years in a row. And I love it. I love seeing people’s stuff. But at the same time, I’m trying to put on a conference at the end of the month.

Jen:
Yeah.

Tim:
And so I’m I’m a little busy, so I have not taken the time to draw every day, which I’m a little regretful of.

Jen:
Come on. You had literally nothing else going on, Tim. Come on. yeah Fair. Fair.

Tim:
But I am a joy enjoying from afar if if that counts.

Jen:
For sure. If nothing else. the artwork that is coming out of other art teachers. And you know what, to be honest, I have found a lot of new art teachers to follow, too, like by searching the hashtag like art teachers that I didn’t know.

Tim:
Yes, yes.

Jen:
And I’m usually but pretty perceptive. I try i actively try to like follow people that, you know, share my interests. And um this has opened up a whole new like there’s some amazing people out there.

Tim:
Yeah, absolutely. Same thing happened to me last year, and yeah, it’s it’s great to find all of those new people.

Jen:
Yeah.

Tim:
I really appreciate that part of it, too. So OK, let’s run through some presentations we’re excited about really quick. I’d love to talk about the keynote, Reggie Laurent.

I know you haven’t seen the whole presentation, but you’ve seen parts, and I guess like what what are people going to see? like What are they going to take away from this presentation?

Jen:
Um, I mean, I got the impression from what I saw, like some of his video is that he’s one of those people with so much knowledge and so much information to impart that I feel like you could sit and hear him talk like for hours.

Tim:
Yes.

Jen:
Like he just has so much to share and it’s all like good stuff.

Tim:
Oh, le let me tell you, the interview that we did went on all day long.

Jen:
Yeah. Yeah.

Tim:
He had so much to share. So cutting it down to, you know, the half hour that we’re going to do was a challenge. It was difficult.

Jen:
That is yeah, um I didn’t realize that he grew up in Chicago. So I thought that was pretty cool. I was like, oh, a local.

Tim:
Yeah.

Jen:
And the stuff that I heard him say about teachers in the little bit that I saw was so what sort of looking for, like heartwarming and respectful and really honoring of teachers.

Tim:
Yeah.

Jen:
And we hear that so little that like it was like we needed to hear.

Tim:
Yeah.

Jen:
I just thought that that was incredible. I really appreciated it.

And I can’t I can’t even find the words like it’s just it’s cool. It’s something we don’t hear enough and it’s nice when you do hear it.

Tim:
Yeah, absolutely.

It’s super inspiring going back to the idea of, you know, inspiration before the school year.

Jen:
Yeah.

Tim:
Just hearing that like right before you go back really gets you fired up.

Jen:
Mm hmm.

Tim:
So I think that’s really cool. And he has just, like you said, a ah deep respect for what teachers do. and And I love that. And he also has this dedication to inspiring students too. He does all of these Zoom calls all year long with classrooms everywhere.

Jen:
Yeah. Yes.

Tim:
And just seeing him light up when he talks about working with kids and inspiring kids, I love it so much.

Jen:
Yes.

Tim:
So anyway, I don’t want to spoil too much of it, but I think everybody’s going to appreciate hearing from him.

Jen:
yes

Tim:
I think it’s going to be a great keynote.

Jen:
Agreed.

Tim:
Other presentations that people should be excited about, like what what are you looking forward to, anything specific?

Jen:
Um, I don’t know that I’ve ever seen one that I didn’t enjoy.

Tim:
OK, fair.

Jen:
So like, I’m not to, not to favor like ah people some people over the other, but when I, um, choose. When I go to a conference, I choose things to watch. I have this weird. I don’t know, maybe I was going to say obsession with me. It’s not an obsession, but I i tend to be drawn to um presentations that are things that I already know or I think I know. But what happens is I go and I i go and I watch these and I always learn something else new.

Tim:
Okay.

Jen:
So my example here is Don Masse has this digital art one. Like if I see a digital, I’m a digital art girly. So when I see tech things, I want to go watch them, not from like a hate-watch. Like, let’s see what they have to say. Well, what are they doing with this? I know.

I need to clarify. um Like, like, well, what are they doing? And is it similar to what I’m doing? And almost always, it’s something I didn’t think of. So I don’t want to give away too much. But like Don Massey talks about like a concept like portraits and gives you like five bazillion new ways to do it. Then I was like, what?

Like mind my mind was blown; it was really neat. So if you are a tech person or thinking about being a tech person, because tech is not hard. That’s definitely a great one. Alicia Ferrell has one on organization. I think it’s the art nerd art supplies back to school, you know, in you that you’re and I say you in the global terms, you and me and all of us um had to watch that one because I was looking for new ways to make my room organized, but cute, too.

Then Kathy Deng has a session on fine motor skills and my previous teaching assignment, I was an instructional technology coach so I worked with teachers from all different subject areas and different grade levels like pre-k through eight and these fine motor skills are skills that all teachers like not just our teachers have been asking for help with. So I can only imagine that anything you can glean to, like help with fine motor skills, is going to be good stuff.

Tim:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s something that teachers have been asking for forever.

It’s like these kids do not have the skills anymore. How do we teach them? And Kathy does a great job of explaining and showing how she teaches them, which I think is going to be beneficial for so many people.

I’m excited about all those. I was just going to say, I’m super excited about the round table that you’re going to do.

Jen:
Whoop, whoop.

Tim:
Last summer, or no, last winter, we did a roundtable, just real talk about classroom management, which was nice because everybody could just kind of air their grievances, for lack of a better word. But, you know, just like actually talk about like what’s going on, what are we seeing and and how are we dealing with this?

Jen:
Yeah.

Tim:
And like, hey, we are all struggling.

Jen:
Yeah.

Tim:
And I feel like that’s a reassuring message.

Jen:
Yes.

Tim:
So we’re going to try and run that back, but talk about student engagement and motivation, which again was was a huge struggle this past year and for the past few years actually.

Jen:
Yes.

Tim:
And so I think just more real talk about that is is important to do. And another spot where we get that community discussion going in the chat and get everybody talking about what’s actually happening in classrooms. I think that’s an important thing. So looking forward to doing that. And then the other one I’m excited about, not to hype up somebody who’s on the podcast all the time already, but Kyle Wood is doing art history facts and His presentation has so many cool things in such a short time and it’s really nicely produced and has these fun little pop-ups.

Jen:
Yes.

Tim:
Did you ever watch pop-up videos back in the 90s?

Jen:
Uh, yes, of course.

Tim:
So his presentation kind of reminded me of that. So all of you old people like me and Jen, you will appreciate that.

Jen:
Uh, I did not preview Kyle’s presentation, but I have seen him present on art history live in person at the IAEA conference and it is fantastic.

Tim:
But it’s a fun presentation. I think that’s a good one to look forward to.

Jen:
So cannot recommend enough. Yes.

Tim:
yeah it’s gonna be good. And it’s gonna be a fun one. And then, I guess the last thing before we go, Jen, would you like to tease your super secret announcement that we can’t actually say too much about?

Jen:
Would you like to tell us about this thing you can’t tell us about? um Yeah, I guess I would ah start by saying that I i was working and as an instructional technology coach. I know you’ve seen me it now, heard me on the podcast before. I have recently joined the AOEU team um that is now Tim is now my coworker and um

Tim:
I know, it’s so exciting.

Jen:
I’ve joined, I know. So I’m now in the community engagement team at AOEU and I’m helping to lead some new, um it what was the word I was looking for? Words are hard.

Tim:
Endeavors? I don’t know.

Jen:
and new and upcoming initiatives.

So, yeah, so I get to help some new stuff coming up, which is the super secret thing. Um, so if you come to the NOW conference, I, do we talk about what day or is it, you just have to attend to find out, but we come Thursday.

Tim:
Yeah, and no, just come on Thursday, August 1st, and come to the main event live. you know, and yes, But in the afternoon, we have a super secret announcement coming, which is going to be very cool and very fun.

Jen:
Yeah. I’ll be around the whole time, but yeah, we, yes.

Tim:
We are thrilled about it. And so yeah everybody, just just come to the conference.

Jen:
Mm-hmm.

Tim:
Come see what we have going on.

Jen:
Yeah. Be there.

Tim:
Yeah, it’ll be worth it, I promise.

Jen:
Don’t have FOMO. Or have FOMO and show up.

Tim:
I promise you it’ll be worth your time. So come, come watch Reggie Laurent, and come listen to Jen make her super secret announcement, and it’s going to be awesome.

Jen:
Mm-hmm.

Tim:
So hopefully we will see everybody there.

Jen:
Whoop whoop.

Tim:
Okay, Jen, thank you so much for joining me.

Jen:
Heck yeah.

Tim:
I appreciate getting way off track with all of our conversations, but also at the same time putting together a good preview for everybody so they can know what to expect at the conference. So thanks for joining me and we’ll look forward to seeing you at the conference.

Jen:
Yeah. Cool. Thanks for having me. I’ll see you there.

Tim:

All right. Thank you to Jen. I appreciate her coming on, and we’ll look forward to hearing more from her on Thursday. Before we leave, let me give you just one last rundown of what’s happening.

Friday: we are doing the conference kickoff with games, trivia, art making. That is Wednesday evening. It starts at 7:00 PM Central. We’re going to do some art making about 8:00 PM Central. We have all sorts of amazing giveaways. We’re doing trivia. We’re doing art making. We’re doing other games. Just a great time to relax. Enjoy yourself with the art teacher community and just have some fun. Come join us if you can.

Thursday is the main event. This is the conference itself, all of the presentations, all the learning, everything that you’re looking for. Just a full day of presentations for everyone who is there. That starts on Thursday at 10:00 AM Central. That’s going to go until about 3:00 in the afternoon.

Then, on Friday, we have the After Pass with additional learning that you can access for the rest of the year. You have an entire calendar year to dive into all of the learning there. Not only all of the presentations and the art making from the first two days of the conference but additional presentations that really dive into more specific topics. You can really find what you’re trying to learn, what you’re looking for, what you’re wanting to check out. A lot of additional topics, a lot of additional presenters, some really, really good stuff in there. Make sure that if you are attending the conference, you check out the After Pass as well. Maybe something that piques your interest and can really help you.

If all of that sounds good to you, all three of those days, and I hope it does, again, you can register at theartofeducation.edu/now. You can find all the information you need there and find everything you want to know about the event. I’m hoping that we will see you there.

Art Ed Radio is produced by the Art of Education University, with audio engineering from Michael Crocker. All right. Conference, obviously. Make sure you sign up if you’re not. I also want to put out one call for mailbag questions. Amanda and I will be recording when we are together for the NOW Conference. If you want anything for next week’s mailbag questions, if you want anything answered in the mailbag, just hit me up. Timothybogatz@theartofeducation.edu or podcasts@theartofeducation.edu. All right. Thank you for listening. We will talk to you next week. But before then, hopefully, we’ll see you this week at NOW.