In today’s episode, Janet joins Tim to discuss her upcoming article about what makes teachers stay at their schools or stay in the position they are in. Whether at the beginning of a teaching career or nearer the end, there are a lot of reasons teachers feel valued and committed to their school. Listen as the conversation covers six of the most important reasons, including supportive and transparent administration, a collaborative and positive environment, and a culture that values the arts. Full episode transcript below.
Tim:
Welcome to Art Ed Radio, the Podcast for Art Teachers. This show is produced by the Art of Education University, and I’m your host, Tim Bogatz.
Over the past couple of years, we have heard from so many teachers who are on the lookout for a new position, and so many administrators who are trying to retain the teachers they have. So on today’s podcast, I want to explore some ideas about what helps art teachers be content in their positions, and why teachers want to stay in their positions. A conversation about why teachers stay.
My guest today will be Janet Taylor, a frequent Art Ed Radio guest who has written an article on this exact topic.
Her Why Teachers Stay article will be coming out tomorrow, so make sure you dive into that.
Two other resources that might be worthwhile for you to explore, if you are interested:
6 Ways to Support New Art Teachers, another article from Janet that was published last week. Whether you are an administrator hiring a new teacher, or you have a new teacher joining your team, it’s full of great advice on how to help support those new teachers and help them flourish.
we also have the 5 green flags when job hunting podcast–video of that podcast will be up in the After Pass at the NOW Conference—and if you’re not familiar with the NOW conference check it out on the AOEU website, it’s an amazing 3 days of online PD for art teachers that everyone should attend. I’ll put a link in the show notes for you to check it out. But that podcast is a really good discussion between me and Amanda about what teachers are looking for in a job and what administrators can do to support their teachers.
But for today, Janet is here to talk to me about why teachers want to stay in a job or stay in a position, and we’re going to throw some thoughts and ideas back and forth. I’m really looking forward to the conversation.
Janet Taylor, welcome back to the show. How are you?
Janet:
Hey Tim, it’s nice to be back. I’m doing well. It is summertime, and everybody is home at my house.
So I guess that shows you what how I’m doing.
Tim:
Well, I was going to say, like yeah you know everybody loves summer, but you know it gets a little stressful by by this point for a lot of us because you’re not used to seeing your family quite so much.
Janet:
Ahha I know. Not as much, yeah.
I’m ready to go back to school. I mean, I didn’t say that. I didn’t say that. I’m ready for them to go back to school. How about that?
Tim:
No, I want to ask you before we start with our actual conversation today, I know you’re doing AOEU grad courses over the summer. So can you, I’m just curious, I guess, ah as to how those are going for you, like what you’ve enjoyed about them. Can you give us a rundown on on how those are going?
Janet:
Sure. So, I mean, basically a little backstory, I guess, is that I’m at a new school this past year. um And my new district did not take my grad classes that I had taken years ago through Art of Ed.
And not because it was Art of Ed, but because they said that they needed to be degree seeking classes. That was an interesting thing. Yeah. Okay. And I was like, well, I already have a master’s and I really don’t want to do like leadership because I do not, like I think I’d be a pretty good administrator, but I do not. Yeah. But like I do not ever, I don’t think I ever, I should never say never, right? But like, I do not want to do that.
Tim:
You don’t have the desire for it right now.
Janet:
No, I do not have the desire for that. So, um, so I was like, well, what can I do about that? And, um, I thought, well, I could take the classes. I could do the masters through the art of ed, and actually, my older, like older classes, kind of rolled up into it eventually anyway. So I was like, great, let’s just do that. So, yeah, so I’m in the masters program. That’s exciting.
Tim:
That is…
Janet:
And I have taken, so I took a bunch of classes years ago, right? And at that time, I took mostly studio classes because I was like, I can’t wait to make art. And now I have to take non-studio classes. And I was like, this is going to stink. But actually, it is not. So I start with, I took classroom management. And then I took instructional strategies and that has overlapped.
Tim:
How was that? like That was my favorite course. Instructional strategies was my favorite.
Janet:
Oh, really?
Tim:
Yeah, I thought it was so helpful. I’d love your perspective on that.
Janet:
Yeah, I actually feel like. The content that I’m making in that class has me thinking about the fall and like kind of what I want to revamp and I’m making a lot of great content for that now, right? So like it’s 100% applicable.
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
And what I love about our courses are that you really can tailor them to what works for you, right?
Tim:
Yes, exactly.
Janet:
So even though the instructional strategies, I mean, so basically the courses, what they do is they provide you with a bunch of resources um to kind of connect your learning and um through that, right? And you can go find your own resources and that kind of stuff. But because it’s so flexible in what they provide and what you can research, it allows you to find what’s gonna work for you in your classroom and not necessarily like somebody else’s classroom, right? So I love that. So I’m pretty excited. Can I tell you about one of the things that I made that I’m really excited to do?
Tim:
Yes, I’m very excited to hear about it.
Janet:
Okay. All right. So i like I said, I’m at this new school and I spent maybe a decade um kind of developing my philosophy of teaching and right kind of digging into what that looks like and building my program at my previous school. And I stepped into this new school and I told myself I needed to slow my role. like That was my goal. I’m like, I’m a seasoned teacher; I know what I’m doing, but I do not know these kids or the program, and I just need to really be okay with taking time to build that back, right?
Tim:
Yeah.
Janet:
Okay, so one of the things I love to do is make process most important so that it drives the outcome, right? but Drives the product and making it really explicit out into the community. So like last at the end of last semester at our art show, I had a bunch of advanced students who had not quite finished their work because it was like really complex work, right?
Tim:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Janet:
And so I said, that’s okay, let’s put your planning out. Let’s put your in-progress work, and we’ll do a QR code on the display case that goes to a video of them talking about their work, right?
So very exciting. And then I was like, how can I bring that more into the classroom? And so, from this class, the instructional strategies course, I created a work-in-progress wall. which I call the WIP wall, right? Where students will um have opportunities to like post their sketches or ideas up on a wall and then have like these laminated speech bubbles where students can ask for feedback and other students can give feedback without it being like super formal or maybe it will spark some conversations in small groups.
And my goal of that is to make them more autonomous in how they are asking for and providing feedback to each other.
Tim:
Oh, I really like that.
Janet:
I know. So I’m really excited about it, but maybe we can revisit it in the fall and I’ll tell you how it’s going. How about that?
Tim:
Yeah, once you actually put it into practice. Yeah, I like that.
Janet:
Yeah, like it may be great for like one day and then they never access it again. You know what I mean?
It’ll be like one of those things like put all this energy in and then you gotta try something, right?
So, so yeah, so I’m excited.
Tim:
Yeah, that’s worth taking a chance on. I like them.
All right, so um let’s kind of set the stage for today’s conversation, though. we want to I talked a little bit in the intro about you know just the idea of why teachers stay where they are. How do we make teachers feel seen, feel heard, and kind of appreciated? in their job. um And I know you also put together an article about why teachers stay, and I had you or asked you to to do some homework and bring some ideas from that article into this conversation today. But can you just talk about, I guess, the the impetus for writing that article or or any anything that you want to share about it?
Janet:
Yeah, I mean, you and I have spent a lot of time talking about content, wrapping around our new teachers and making sure that they feel supported because they’re really important, right? And also, we want them to stay there. We want teachers that are currently In the classroom to stay at the in their classroom so um we just i don’t know in our discussions but it was really important to have some content to help us. more seasoned teachers kind of feel seen and heard, right? That like, I get it, I get you and we’re here for you.
But also kind of help us digest or reflect on reasons why you should stay somewhere versus maybe it’s time to move on or whatever that looks like, right? um Because I think sometimes we are just in an environment and we don’t really, we’re just kind of moving along because it’s a job and that’s what we do and we’re kind of wrapped into it, right?
And we don’t always go like, oh, right, this is the reason why I’m sticking around. Or maybe, man, if I had known what I know now, that maybe I would have made that move sooner. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Tim:
Well, and I think it’s important to, you know, we talk on this podcast all the time about reflection, the importance of reflecting. And I don’t know that we do that enough on big picture things. Like, you know, what do I love about my job?
What could be better? What do I need to advocate for?
Janet:
Right?
Tim:
You know, I’m just kind of thinking about those big-picture things. And so, Maybe the conversation we have today can encourage people to do just that.
Think about you know why do I stay here? What do I love about my job? you know What could be better? like What could I ask my administrators to do a better job with and things like that. so Anyway, you have a lot of ideas. I think you’re going to give three ideas. I’m going to give three ideas as far as why teachers stay. So can I have you give us your your first thought on why teachers may stay where they are?
Janet:
Yes, so my first and foremost reason for staying somewhere or even sticking around for a short term, right, is are the people. I think the team that you work with, the collaboration that is integrated um is probably my number one reason for sticking around. like
Tim:
Yeah, I love that.
Janet:
I, you know, yeah. I mean, so, okay, so you have to decide what that looks like, right? And so for me, I need to know, I need to reflect on and think, okay, who are my people? And I know I’ve said this to you and others in multiple ways, right?
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
Like I really appreciate really smart people, right? Like really intelligent, interesting people whose values of like a department or what teaching is about really aligned with mine and the vision of long-term progress.
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
So that to me is really important. But on the other side, I really love to laugh if you guys have a figured that out, and so I need to be around people who also like don’t take everything so seriously, and can make me laugh.
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
Right. Um, it’s really easy.
Tim:
No, I was just going to say, I think that’s that’s an important thing because like teaching is a difficult job.
And so you need people who maybe share your sense of humor. ah You need people that can help you through ah some of the more difficult times. And if your if your thoughts, your sense of humor align, ah that makes it so much easier to to do exactly that.
Janet:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like you said, it’s just easy to get really bogged down, right? In the weeds and kind of that bigger picture of like, we are all people too. You know, there’s some humanity happening here and we should enjoy being around each other.
Tim:
Can we extend that out though? Like I’m thinking like you have those people that, that you’re close to that support you, um, um you know, whoever they, they may be in your department, outside of your department.
But further outside that that close circle, like where else does support come from for you? like Who else is surrounding you and helping you out, forming that, I guess, collaborative environment, for for lack of a better word?
Janet:
Yeah, so it’s funny, I don’t know if we’ve talked about this, but I used to think myself as like a total extrovert, and love to be around people all the time. And then I realized, really, I think during the pandemic, it gave me a realization that I’m not extrovert.
I’m like an introverted, I’m an introverted or an extroverted introvert, right?
Tim:
All right.
Janet:
So, like, It’s important to be able to find people also that are like, not you’re around all the time, right? It’s like sometimes it’s a lot, especially when you’re teaching and with kids all the time, etc. So I like to get around the school and have some space. And there are some really important people that I like to chat with and get to know because they’re just great people and they help you do your job better, right? So other people that I really love to get to know and work with are my maintenance people, custodians, custodial staff, right?
Tim:
Yep, yep.
Janet:
Oh, my gosh. the They are so hardworking and they help you in so many ways. And they’re also people, right?
Tim:
Mm-hmm.
Janet:
And I find it fascinating. Like, I’ll be walking around the school and they’ll come up and chit-chat with me. And I think that relationship really makes it so much better to ask them for help, right?
I think my bookstore person is really important to me. She helps me do any of the student kits at the beginning of the year or any of the small ordering that I need through that.
My department secretary is or you know your school secretaries.
Those people are amazing people. Learning support coaches. I’ve worked with a handful over the years, and they are incredibly great people. And anybody else that um You know other content areas where there’s some veteran teachers some new teachers i just think it’s really important to get outside of your bubble and extend throughout the school and and like i said i don’t know about being an extroverted introvert or whatever.
I know it’s not easy always to get outside your class, but I think it’s important to create that culture of that community. And that’s what makes you feel good about being at your school, right? So you’re not feeling isolated and alone. I think making sure you have those tentacles out, you know?
Tim:
Yes. Uh-huh. And I think, yeah, anytime you can connect with people just outside of the workplace, it really helps you enjoy the workplace more, I guess, like you said, that that sense of community is huge. And a lot of times, administrators do a great job of kind of developing that. Sometimes it’s up to the teachers, but I think anytime that you can get to know people outside of that, ah you know regular school day, that that’s good. Maybe you’re seeing them in other school activities, maybe you’re going out for drinks on a Friday, maybe you’re just hanging out somewhere else, but anything like that where you can see people outside of the normal school day just sort of builds that camaraderie, that sense of community, and it it makes you a little bit more invested in you know where you are, who you’re working with, and and everybody trying to find success.
Okay, so one other question before we move on, kind of the the flip side. ah A lot of schools, and we hear a lot of people complain about people that they don’t love to work with or you know gossip or a toxic environment or things like that. So how do you avoid that? How do you just kind of focus on the people you want to focus on and avoid that that toxicity?
Janet:
Yeah, it’s easy to get sucked into it, isn’t it?
Tim:
It really is.
Janet:
Yeah, especially over the last several years, I tell you. So a couple tips that I remind myself because it’s so easy to get wrapped into it, right? So there are times when I’m like, why am I feeling so grumpy today? I’ll kind of go through a checklist of like, okay, need to get out of the office, like I said, and connect with the school. So that’s one thing, right?
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
But another is just to like stay out of the gossip or talking poorly about others, which, you know, and we’re all human, it’s really easy to complain or vent.
It’s another thing to have that just kind of perseverate and continue and get worse, right? Um, I think when you recognize like the, I call it the negative energy suck, right? Of people feeling grumpy all the time are cranky about their jobs, cranky about students, cranky about whatever. Um, that just like becomes this energy suck. And even when you’re in the best of moods, it can really. pull it out of you. And I think it’s really important to recognize it and be like, either say something, right change the mood, or walk away right and just be like, I’m not participating in this.
Tim:
Yeah. Yeah.
Janet:
And part of that has a lot to do with positive presuppositions.
I think I’m saying that correctly. I heard that years ago and I feel like I use it all the time and I’m like, am I saying that right? But that is the idea that you are always coming with people having the best intentions. You know, somebody comes to you and is talking to you about something, always assuming the best possible intention.
Tim:
Yeah, you can you can just assume good intentions as as the default. Assume that people are coming to you with good intentions.
Janet:
Right, thank you for just clarifying what I’m trying to say. I always appreciate when do you do that. And then part of that too, right, is making sure you know your own boundaries and sticking to them. I think that’s really important and very difficult for most of us because I think we are intrinsically like kind, giving people.
Tim:
Yes. Yeah.
Janet:
And you have to remind yourself of like, okay, I can’t sit and talk to this person right now for three hours about their problems. Or I know I need to go pick up my kid after school. I can’t stick around this or whatever it is. um And just making sure that you’re sticking to that and not, you know, and just not feeling bad about it when you have to stick to them, right?
Tim:
Yeah, absolutely. And actually, that’s one of my three points that I brought along. So I want to dive into that a little bit more later. But for now, I’m going to bring up my first point or second one overall, second reason why teachers stay. And I would say a supportive or trusting administration. And I think that that’s huge when you can just do your job and you know that the administration ah supports you ah with not only knowing your subject matter, being able to teach your subject matter, your curriculum, but also in terms of discipline. You know, they have your back, they trust you to run your classroom, how you need to trust it or how you need to run it, but then when you need help, they’re there to to help you. And I think just that overall idea that the administration knows that you’re a good teacher, they treat you like a professional and then support you when you need it goes a long, long way toward ma making teachers happy. And I’ve talked on here a lot about autonomy and how I think teachers probably need more autonomy to run things the way they want and so when administrators can say yeah you’re a professional do this how you want to do this how you know is gonna work best for your classroom I think that’s great and if they can treat you like the expert that you are I think that goes a long way toward teachers feeling comfortable, feeling welcome, feeling valued, and and I think that that helps a lot. So, um, I don’t know, Janet, thoughts on that or stories from, you know, administrators that have been supportive or have helped you?
Janet:
Yeah, I mean, I think kind of what that could look like, right, is an administrator asking you for your opinions. I think that’s that goes a long way when they come to you and say, what do you think about this?
Tim:
Yeah. Yeah.
Janet:
Or can you be part of this panel of interviews or whatever it is that they’re working on, I think it really says a lot, right?
I think, oh, there was one more thing I was going to say. I was thinking about that when you were talking about . . .
It’s gone. It’ll come back at some point. But I think you know just looking for those cues on how your administration is actually actively showing you that trust and support, you know I think is is really important. you know Not just like, oh, you you have autonomy necessarily, but also like, what are you doing with that?
Tim:
Right. Right. I think that that’s a good point.
And I don’t know, just one other thing I was thinking about with, you know, just sort of behavior thing, like I rarely have behavior issues in and the classroom. And so when I come to admins and say, hey, I need help with this student or I need help with that situation, like I don’t need them telling me like, well, have you tried this? Have you tried this? Do you know best practices or act like yes, I know that I’ve been I’ve been here long enough that I know Like what can and should be done.
Janet:
Yes.
Tim:
I’m telling you it’s not working. We need we need help Right exactly and so Yeah, so that um I feel like that really drives a lot of teachers crazy like when we’re coming for help It’s because we need help ah So yeah, that’s um, I don’t know
Janet:
Did you ask them to put their cell phone away, Tim? No, I didn’t even think about that, you know?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Again, okay, wait, can I just add to that, Tim, him though? I have to say.
Tim:
Yes, please do.
Janet:
This goes back to our positive assumptions.
Tim:
I was just going to say that. I was just going to say.
Janet:
I was like, man, I was being snarky about that. But I think you know the flip side of that is trying to remind yourself that they are just going through a checklist and make sure they’re covering their bases when they’re talking to you.
Tim:
you know what we need to assume that they have good intentions in and asking you those questions.
Janet:
Yes.
Tim:
And matt would that would really go a long way from our side to to understanding that.
Janet:
Yes. Yes. I just, I needed to take a deep breath right then and just remind myself but that clearly it’s a little trigger point with the cell phones.
Tim:
I think that is for a lot of teachers, so that’s fair.
That’s fair. All right, Janet, we’re going to give us your next idea.
Janet:
Okay, so along the line with administrators, I think um it’s really great when an administration is communicative, but also transparent in what they’re saying and how they’re saying it. So um yeah, so like, you know, you get administration that will send like a million emails.
Tim:
Okay and not helpful.
Janet:
Like, do not need that. That is not what I’m saying to do. Please, if anybody, administrators listening, you know, I don’t need seven emails. And then they’re like, well, it’s in an email. I’m like, I can’t find it. There’s like a million in there. Yeah, right, right. So there’s like a sweet spot for that, right, of maybe a concise communication, maybe a once a week communication, I think is a nice way actually to, you know, touch base with your team, and also communicate maybe some essential things out. But then also, being transparent about what you’re putting forth in the communication. So um I know, I feel like, again, this maybe goes back to the assumed positive intentions, but a lot of us teachers um who are already a little burnt out will get emails from administrators that feel disingenuous, that feel like they are hiding um some facts, right? Or some data that is not there, right? So when you say, like chronic absenteeism is not an issue, we’re doing so well with that.
But you’re living the life of like chronic absenteeism in your class, that is a disconnect.
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
And it feels very bad for teachers, right?
To even receive that communication, like, why are you saying this to me right now?
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
It feels like like gaslighting a little, right?
Like you’re trying to tell me something that’s not true. So I think it’s really important. you know. Obviously, administrators can’t share everything, um all the details, especially you know like an emergency situation or a crisis situation.
They’re not going to share all those details, but it’s important for them to find a way to communicate what they can and in a way that they can. So sometimes the administration will, For example, in an emergency situation they might, hold a meeting so they can talk about some of these things and allow teachers opportunities to talk and dialogue about it right and answer questions Without it being in writing, you know, I mean, let’s be honest, right?
So I think an administration who takes those things things seriously listens to what you have to say and responds in a way I think is really a good reason to stay right like you find like you as a team, as a whole staff matter to them, right?
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
I think also a lot of times we have expectations as teachers to respond within 24 hours to an email. And it is essential that administrators do the same, right? So if they are not responding, then another that also weighs on us as teachers like, okay, you’re not holding to your same standards, right?
Tim:
Right. it It can be incredibly frustrating when yeah you you send something, you have a question, or it just sort of seems to be floating in the ether. You have no idea if they’ve seen it, if they’re acting on it. That is the worst feeling in the world.
Janet:
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, like I said, if we have to respond and we are bogged down with, it I mean, I know they’re busy people, so are we, right?
So having it both ways. um I think also the type of communication being timely. So like anything that’s upcoming, you know, when you have an administration that will send something last minute all the time as it happens once in a while, but like all the time, That also bogs us down, and I think it makes us feel burnout a lot quicker, right? To have asks come all this, all the time, last minute.
Tim:
Yeah, when everything is an emergency like that, that makes things very, that really weighs on you as well.
That’s very difficult to deal with.
Janet:
Yes.
Tim:
Can I add two things just really quickly to the list?
Janet:
Yeah, sure.
Tim:
I would say, number one, when it comes to communication and transparency, it’s okay for administrators to admit when they’re wrong, like when they’ve messed up something.
And I appreciate when anybody in a position of power can actually do that and say, hey, we didn’t get this one quite right. ah In the future, we’re going to change it by doing this, this, and this, and just you know, owning up to it and kind of admitting your mistakes, I think is huge because so many administrators will not do that. And so I honestly earn in a lot of respect from from the staff when you do that, I think. And then secondly, I don’t know if this is maybe separate from everything else, but just the idea of transparency when you were talking about that, just like budgeting and questions you have and like, where is this money coming from?
Where is it going? How much do I have to spend? What can go where? And just the more information you can get on you know what you have available and what you can spend and what you can spend it on, you know and just it’s very helpful to to have an idea of the big picture behind all of that. So the more admins can share when it comes to to budgeting, I think that goes a long way for teachers as well.
Janet:
Yeah, and along the lines of budget, it’s not just like your supply budget or the students, you know, fee budget, but also like maintenance of your equipment or sending teachers to conferences.
That was the other thing I was going to say about treating you as an expert, right? Like them recognizing you need conferences and that you can present at conferences or whatever it is right workshops courses etc but like there’s usually budgets in the whole building allotted to content for professional development and sometimes we don’t even I mean a lot of times I shouldn’t say sometimes most of the times I feel like I’ve never known what is out there in a building to support me in my content so yeah for sure that’s a good point
Tim:
No, I was just going to say, you make a great point. Like you said, you don’t know what’s out there. And if teachers can access that information or have it shared with them, then that’s going to be very much appreciated. OK, next on my list of why teachers stay, going back to the boundaries, saying just your time is valued where you are. That is something that the teachers everywhere really appreciate. That’s something that I think goes a long way toward teachers feeling valued, is having their time valued. And it goes back to a couple of things that we we said already. Not having requests sort of cross the boundaries that you said, and not having requests come in at the last minute, like you just mentioned. you know just emails about, oh, this is happening tomorrow. We need X number of people to do these things. That’s so disheartening to get things like that. And so I think anytime that you’re asked with plenty of time, ah that that can be helpful. And it’s really frustrating when you’re being pressured to do things, or you’re being guilt-tripped to do things or just say, oh, we haven’t had your help with this before, or the teacher before you used to always do that. Don’t do that. Let people decide on their own.
They want to help and if there’s something that’s required, find some money to pay people for their time I think you know people need to know teachers need to know their time is valued and I think that anytime we can show teachers that their time is valued by either you know paying them for their time asking them with plenty of warning to you know, make plans to help with that, I think can be huge. And I have other thoughts on that, but anything you want to throw in before I just talk for for an hour here?
Janet:
You can talk for an hour. I guess the only thing that I think of specifically comes to mind too is like an allocated prep period, making sure that you have, I think that’s really important for art teachers.
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
And I think it’s still a struggle that I deal with personally, too. You know, we have a lot of prep that goes into our curriculum and our setup. We have a lot of ordering that needs to happen. We have maintenance that needs to happen. We have kilns to load and unload that, honestly, most administration just doesn’t understand because it just happens. We just take care of it.
Tim:
Right.
Janet:
So dedicating or knowing that you have those responsibilities that are unique, I think you know, allowing you your prep period or giving you extra prep period, you know, some allocated time. Like you were saying about getting paid for things, right? Or even just like release time, right? Like sub coverage to set up an art show, you know, or whatever it is.
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
Cause that takes a lot of time and it’s usually outside of our class time, you know?
Tim:
Yeah, well, and I think something that I’ve been hearing from teachers all over the country in a post-pandemic is just how much time they are taken away from their classroom to sub for other classes. And like that’s not that’s not unique to our teachers.
You know, everybody’s needing to do that. But at the same time, like it makes it very difficult, especially when you said we have so many things to do that we need dedicated time for. And if you’re losing an entire period, ah to have to go cover for English or go cover for tech class or whatever ah that can make things really really hard and so again if you can figure out ways to alleviate that for your teachers either paying them to sub if your district does that which a lot more districts have been doing that. Or just helping them out by you know letting them, like you said, set up art shows, take care of other things that that need to be taken care of. Maybe let them out of a couple of those things here and there and just let them know that their time is valued. That’s going to be appreciated quite a bit by by everyone who’s on the receiving end of that.
Janet:
Yeah, can I share a little anecdote real quick about that?
Tim:
Please do.
Janet:
So these are even like small things, right? So our school, you know, we have to do a supervision each day, right?
Tim:
Yeah.
Janet:
Like a period has to be a supervision of some sort. So that could be like a study hall or it could be sitting out in the hallway making sure students are getting to where they need to go or whatever it is.
Tim:
Yep.
Janet:
And so one of the requests that our team went to our administrator this year was, Hey, you know, we used to sit and monitor the hallway by our art classrooms. Now you have us like on the third floor in English or whatever it is, or by the main office and like, do we need to be there? Can you find us a way to like get back to the art area? Because we could then step away for a moment to help a student who you know maybe came in during their off period to work on something, right? Or you know maybe I can quickly unload a kiln real quick and get back out.
And just having them hear that, sit down with us, talk through it, and actually make the change for second semester was huge in our book. Like, we feel heard, seen. And I mean, it’s like, I’m not an, I don’t want to put anybody under the bus, right? I always say this, like, it’s not a content versus content. But I feel like I can’t go read a paper in you know in the main area on my computer.
Tim:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Janet:
Most of my work is in the classroom. So if I can be anywhere in the classroom, close to the classroom, anything like that helps me. And if my administration is actually acknowledging that, I think that’s a big first step.
Tim:
And that goes back to both the supportive part that we talked about and the transparent part, because they are they’re listening.
Janet:
Yeah.
Tim:
They’re letting you in on how decisions are made. And then ah you know doing things that are helpful to you after listening to to what you need. And so, like, that’s like great work by your admins to and to figure that out. So I think that’s that’s a very, I don’t know, very illustrative anecdote. So thank you.
Alright, Janet, reason number five. It’s your turn.
Janet:
Okay, so reason number five is that the arts are a priority and your community is a good fit for your values around the arts, right? Okay, so um I will share, right? So there have been schools that I have either taught at or then, you know, around or whatever, um where their priority was always awards and accolades, right? Like they were very high into exhibiting work, getting awards for it, scholastics at the wazoo or whatever, right?
Tim:
Yeah, and nothing wrong with that.
Like let’s be clear. Like if that’s what you want to do, more power to you. That’s amazing.
Janet:
Go for it.
Tim:
Go for it.
Janet:
Yes, I mean, there’s some pretty amazing work that comes out of that, right? Like, don’t get me wrong at all about that.
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
But, you know, when I was at my previous school, one of the things, you know, we were doing, for example, scholastics, and we were noticing that they were always accepting a certain kind of artwork.
Tim:
Mhm.
Janet:
And that just did not fit what our students were creating or what we valued as a department. We were like, we really want to showcase their conceptual thinking and their exploration of materials and that kind of stuff, which might not fit in more of a technical thing, right?
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
So for example, okay, so we as a department said, you know what? We are extended too much. We are doing too many exhibitions. Let’s, we need to cut something. And we decided to drop Scholastics, right? Was one of our decisions, you know? And I think some people would say like, I can’t believe you did that, right? And so you have to be at a place that values what you value, right? If you’re if you’re like me and was okay with dropping scholastics because we know we would not get those awards, right?
Or the school resume or whatever it was, right? If you’re okay with that, then maybe, or not okay with that, then you need to be at a school that’s more focused on competition, for example, right?
Tim:
Yeah.
Janet:
So those alignments are really important and it needs to be the right fit there. um I would say also another example of ah arts being a priority is when you have an art show and the community shows up, right? So parents and students.
Tim:
Yes.
Janet:
Now, again, at my other school, we would do an art show in the evening. We did the art show throughout the week or whenever it was up in school and the kids really valued that.
But in the evening time, we would host like a reception, right? And parents and teach in students we’re not coming to it and that doesn’t mean that they don’t value the arts but they prioritize other stuff right like maybe they’re focused on all their sports that they’re doing or whatever they’re doing in the evening so.
You know, but after a while, I did feel like, why is our community not supporting, right? Or throwing an art show at my new school, you know, have all of these people come and show up and it’s like a really great community and environment. And like one administrator shows up, but we have like seven administrators, you know, you know, that kind of thing, right?
Tim:
I was just going to say, that’s also something we we should have talked about with administrative support. You know, just anything that you’re doing outside, whether it’s art shows, competitions, you know, community, like mural painting, whatever.
If administrators can just stop by and show their support, even for a little bit, like that, that goes a long way.
Janet:
Right, or even just like taking a, like even during the day, you know, maybe they’re busy at night, I get it, you know, again, or humans, positive intentions. But, you know, taking a photo of what’s happening and posting it on social media, sending you an email that says, hey, I noticed your art show looks amazing. You know, just those little things really does make you feel valued. And it makes you feel that what you’re doing is seen across the community and is valued and is important, right?
Tim:
Yeah.
Janet:
It’s not just like, second best, right? um Yeah, so I mean, a couple other things, I guess, you know, these are kind of touchy because it depends on budgets and how things are working. But, you know, when you have art-related clubs that you’re doing, like we’re currently fighting for, we have a, we would like to start a national art honor our society at my school.
Tim:
Yeah, yeah.
Janet:
And you know to get it to be a stipended position is a struggle and you’re like i don’t understand it say an academic service oriented nationally recognize chapter but you know that isn’t you know, but art club might be a stipended position. So that’s great, you know, like, you know, you kind of just go like, okay, how are you valued as far as those stipends or like you said, your time, this kind of crosses over there too, right?
If you’re putting that time in after school or on the weekends to work with students, how is that being received?
You know, is it being celebrated by your administrators, by your community?
Do students love it? Do they care? You know, all that stuff, yeah.
Tim:
Yeah, for sure. Well, and I think just one last thing to add to that too, just if arts are prior a priority in your school, you know, and they’re going to give you time to have dedicated PD and other ways for you to expand your knowledge, whether it’s workshops or classes or anything else there, they’re going to be able to give you the opportunity to do that and they’re going to show you that that that is something that they prioritize and you know that’s a place where a lot of people are going to say oh yeah this is a good fit for me like this somebody who wants to help me continue on with my career get better at what I do and I think a lot of teachers feel like they find a fit when they find a place like that so okay
Janet:
Yeah, I mean, sorry. So I’m on the same line like a good example is that my previous school never funded me to go talk or present at NAEA. Like, I never got funding for that.
Tim:
Right.
Janet:
My new school, I said, I’m presenting and they’re like, oh my gosh, of course, we will pay for your registration and, you know, whatever.
But like that, I was like, oh my God, for like 15 years, I’ve been presenting and I’ve never gotten a single dollar for it, you know? um And here this district, and I’m like, those are the things that make you go, okay, this feels like a right fit for me.
I feel good here, you know?
Tim:
Yes, absolutely. Alright, final idea on our list of why teachers stay, and I feel like this one is maybe outside of a lot of teachers’ control or administrators’ control, but I’ve noticed that so many teachers, uh, stay and talk about staying because they’re just, they’re comfortable where they are. Like they’re, they’re fine with this job.
It may not be the perfect fit. They may not have the perfect support, but you know, they’re, they’re 26 years in, like the, the salary scale is what it is.
Janet:
Right.
Tim:
If they’re going to transfer, then they’re not going to get paid for all those years, et cetera, et cetera. And so everything is just kind of,
Set up for them to to cruise on for those last like eight, nine years and call it good and so they’re they’re comfortable and that’s the reason they stay. Like I said, but that’s kind of out of a lot of people’s control. But it absolutely is a reality for so many teachers. So I guess my question for you is like, do you have any experience that’s something that you’re hearing as well?
Janet:
Yes, 100%. You know, you talk to somebody and you’re like, Oh, how’s your school year going?
They’re like, I got five years left, you know, it’s like, right, you’re like, you’re right.
Tim:
Yeah, right. Like that is the conversations are like, how are you? And they’re like seven years left. like
Janet:
Yeah. Yeah. Or like, hey, you should come and work at my school. And they’re like, I could not get paid when I get paid there because they won’t take my years of service. You know, that kind of stuff happens.
Tim:
Right. Right.
Janet:
And they’re like, it is what it is. You know, um I think that also pieces that play into staying where you’re staying right or being comfortable there um are like the proximity to school that you live. right, like, How long is your commute?
How many kids are in your classes? like What is the workload? you know It’s just those those other logistic factors that kind of play into that because sometimes it’s like when we talk about interviewing for a new job or looking for a new job and taking something, It’s like sometimes those play in. I will get paid less knowing that I have smaller class sizes and also I’m five minutes from home. You know me, I personally don’t want to live in the same place that I work.
Tim:
Yeah.
Janet:
In high school, it’s like I don’t want my students seeing me while I’m going to have an adult beverage.
Tim:
Right.
Janet:
But I also like a little bit of downtime in the car, you know, for my commute.
And so that stuff matters over time too. And if your commute is really long, in the beginning it might be fine, but over time that might grate on you, right? So I think those are all kinds of pieces that you have to to decide on or going back to our reflection on all of this, right? It’s not usually just one reason why you stay. There are usually a lot of multiple factors, and they weigh differently and at different times of your career, you know, what’s important.
Tim:
But no, I think that that’s a really good point because there are so many things that that go into it. And as a teacher, you just need to prioritize, you know, figure out this is most important to me, this is what I want to to go after. And you know if there are things that you know administrators could do to better support you or better help you with those priorities, you know communicate with that with them. like Administrators are are generally going to be receptive. right, you know. You say, hey, I really love this, but I need X, Y, and Z ah to really, you know, make this program the best it can be. And hopefully, they can work with you to help you chase those priorities, to follow through on those things. and hopefully make your your job the best fit it can be. So, Janet, anything else you want to close with? Any other thoughts before we head out of here?
Janet:
Oh my gosh, no, for once. I feel like we’ve covered it all.
Tim:
All right, good, good. I love to hear that.
Janet:
Yeah.
Tim:
I’m glad we had a comprehensive conversation here, but ah thank you for joining us, Janet. I always love talking to you, and I feel like there’s a lot of good stuff that we covered here today, so appreciate all of it.
Janet:
Thanks, Tim.
Tim:
I want to close with a bit from Janet’s article, as I think it sums up our conversation well and illustrates the long view. She says:
Year after year, the State of Art Education Survey shows that one of the greatest joys art teachers have is building relationships and connecting with students. While our students are what makes us love our jobs, feeling valued in our school is what makes art teachers stay for longevity in art education. This climate of respect, support, and appreciation hinges on a positive environment with open communication, two-way feedback, assistance, and collaboration.
Remember, a supportive school environment that fuels your unique art teacher energy will not only encourage you but also attract other teachers long-term as well.
Art Ed Radio is produced by the Art of Education University with audio engineering from Michael Crocker. Thank you, as always for listening, and we will be back with you next week.
Magazine articles and podcasts are opinions of professional education contributors and do not necessarily represent the position of the Art of Education University (AOEU) or its academic offerings. Contributors use terms in the way they are most often talked about in the scope of their educational experiences.
Podcast 
